Conveyancing and access to the public highway

user1977

Indemnity insurance policies generally cover all future owners and mortgage lenders.

NordicNoir

user1977 said:

Indemnity insurance policies generally cover all future owners and mortgage lenders.

That is interesting! Would an indemnity insurance work in the green roads example too?

Grumpy_chap

MichelleUK said:

Grumpy_chap said:

What type of private land is being crossed and what are the current arrangements for crossing the private land?
Is this a 'ransom strip' or something else?

Thanks Grumpy_chap, but I am not looking for advice on a specific house, this is more of a query on the conveyancers procedure be relating to access.

I don't think that meaningful advice can be given for a hypothetical situation that may never happen.
To continue would be just discussion that can never reach a definite conclusion.

Linton

user1977 said:

Indemnity insurance policies generally cover all future owners and mortgage lenders.

Would an undemnity insurance really pay for a new house if it turned out that all access to the house was blocked?

user1977

Linton said:

user1977 said:

Indemnity insurance policies generally cover all future owners and mortgage lenders.

Would an undemnity insurance really pay for a new house if it turned out that all access to the house was blocked?

Generally the cover is up to the price paid for the property, on the basis that the worst case scenario is you have an (almost) valueless landlocked plot.

In practice of course, it can usually be sorted for less than that by the insurers buying the access rights required - if the other party is being difficult it can generally be solved with enough cash...

user1977

MichelleUK said:

user1977 said:

Indemnity insurance policies generally cover all future owners and mortgage lenders.

That is interesting! Would an indemnity insurance work in the green roads example too?

Probably, but depends on the remaining circumstances you are drip-feeding to us...

NordicNoir

user1977 said:

MichelleUK said:

user1977 said:

Indemnity insurance policies generally cover all future owners and mortgage lenders.

That is interesting! Would an indemnity insurance work in the green roads example too?

Probably, but depends on the remaining circumstances you are drip-feeding to us...

I really apologise, that was not my intention, it is just a really odd situation.

My original question has in fact been answered here, I was just going off at a tangent myself 😊 

Section62

MichelleUK said:

Section62 said:

MichelleUK said:

...
Put another way, if the conveyancer is aware that to get to your property you have travel across a private road, and there are no specific rights granted in any of the legal documents, would they consider that something that MUST be put right?
...

As user1977 says - pointed out and explained should be a minimum.

As to putting it right, there will be cases (not infrequently) where it isn't possible to correct the lack of documented rights - for example where the ownership of the private road is unknown, so there is nobody to formally request those rights from.  These could be cases where easement by prescription or easement by neccessity might apply, but if there is no known owner of the road then there is nobody to stop its use (lawfully) so a court might be reluctant to grant an explicit right.

In other words, a conveyancer cannot always insist this is something which "must" be put right, as doing so could be impossible.  Pragmatism and indemnity insurance are sometimes the best way forward.

That is really useful, thanks!

Say the original TP1 stated that you had rights to use the road coloured green on the attached plan, but there was no road coloured green, would the conveyancer ask that a deed of variation to be drawn up to clarify this? Presumably, if indemnity insurance is used, that would only cover the current buyer whereas a deed of variation will cover future buyers too?

My first question would be whether the lack of a green coloured road was simply an error introduced when the plan had been copied - often done in black and white with the colour then added by hand.  If the neighbouring properties were around the same age I might check a few of them to see whether they have identical clauses, and if so, what (if anything) is coloured green on their plans.

However, I'm not a conveyancer, and as researching the 'why' would cost time and money I could understand why one might go straight for the indemnity policy option where the cost is known and the outcome is rather more certain.

Section62

la531983 said:

Section62 said:

la531983 said:

Surely it depends on the specific circumstances. If its someone who hasnt bothered to drop the kerb when putting a driveway in and you have to drive across a pavement to access it, there is next to no chance an "easement" exists.

That doesn't follow.  You don't have to have a dropped kerb unless the circumstances and the highway authority require one, and the dropped kerb (if needed) is independent of any rights over land owned by a third party.

There have been a few cases near me where people have been forced to get a kerb dropped after putting a drive in, so its certainly a "thing" here.

Yes, a highway authority can require the provision of a dropped kerb (s184).  I.e. "unless the circumstances and the highway authority require one"

But my point was the absence of a dropped kerb doesn't indicate a lack of easement/access right.

This is because one or more of the following might apply-

1) The conditions of s184 haven't been met.

2) The highway authority don't know or don't care.

3) The land has an easement/access right, which isn't currently in use.

4) The land has an easement/access right, but isn't habitually used by 'a mechanically propelled vehicle'.

5) The road isn't a highway maintainable at the public expense.

Any requirement for a dropped kerb is independent of the rights over land owned by a third party.

Yorkie1

Bear in mind that it's not a binary situation, particularly for properties built a long time ago.

You might find an easement / right of access is drafted so that it only grants rights on foot, or on a cart or horse, or bike ... read it fully!