Buying house no building regs for removing load bearing walls

Olistanding

I am buying a house in the north west and have just found out that two there are no building regs for two load bearing walls that have been removed downstairs.

The works were apparently done by a previous owner 15+ years ago although i have no proof of the date.

Our solicitor has advised they have to inform the lender, the seller is saying if there were issues caused by the work being done improperly they would be apparent by now.

Our surveyor didnt notice any issies with the removed walls but the house has been decorated internally and rendered externally over the last couple of years so he caveated that this could mask any issues.

Keen to know:

- what others have done in similar situations?

- how put off the house you would be by this?

I am thinking about getting a structural surveyor to look at it but not sure how much they will be able to tell without doing something invasive.

I am paying a bit of a premium for the house because it seemed to be in good condition and the seller claimed to have all paperwork in order so its a bit frustrating to find out about this late in the process but  i am also not keen to go back to square one 

Thanks

Ayr_Rage

Here is my musical verdict, save yourself further grief and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvgovAzhJHU

GDB2222

I can’t see any point at all in a structural engineer, unless he is allowed to open up as much as necessary for him to form a firm opinion. So, that’s the first question for the owners. 

When they, almost inevitably, say no, that takes you back to square one. But, having got this far, it costs nothing to ask the question.

At some stage they may offer indemnity insurance, but you need to understand exactly what that covers. In particular, if cracks appear, will it cover the cost of remedial work, plus accommodation while you move out. 

Emmia

Ayr_Rage said:

Here is my musical verdict, save yourself further grief and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvgovAzhJHU

I'm with the four tops on this one. I wouldn't be worried about cracks per se, more the risk of catastrophic and sudden collapse.

Section62

Olistanding said:

I am buying a house in the north west and have just found out that two there are no building regs for two load bearing walls that have been removed downstairs.

The works were apparently done by a previous owner 15+ years ago although i have no proof of the date.

Our solicitor has advised they have to inform the lender, the seller is saying if there were issues caused by the work being done improperly they would be apparent by now.

Our surveyor didnt notice any issies with the removed walls but the house has been decorated internally and rendered externally over the last couple of years so he caveated that this could mask any issues.

Keen to know:

- what others have done in similar situations?

- how put off the house you would be by this?

I am thinking about getting a structural surveyor to look at it but not sure how much they will be able to tell without doing something invasive.

I am paying a bit of a premium for the house because it seemed to be in good condition and the seller claimed to have all paperwork in order so its a bit frustrating to find out about this late in the process but  i am also not keen to go back to square one 

Thanks

The seller is hoping to rely on an urban myth then.  Whilst some issues might become apparent during or soon after doing dodgy structural work, the passage of time doesn't provide proof that the structural work isn't dodgy... it just means a trigger event hasn't yet happened.

But furthermore, without evidence of when the work has been done (are there EA pictures from a previous sale?) and with the decorating and rendering potentially removing visible evidence of past movement (as the surveyor points out), you'd be relying on the word of the seller that the work was done when claimed and that there had been no sign of movement... and this is the seller who told you all the paperwork was in order.

Personally, unless the seller agrees to a structural engineer inspection and covers the cost, I'd be walking.  Not necessarily due to the lack of paperwork, but the fact that someone who removes two possibly structural walls without going through building control has quite possibly done other stuff which hasn't been picked up yet.  That the current seller has misled you about the paperwork and employs the "if it hasn't happened yet" myth would leave me feeling their word isn't something I can trust.

On a practical level, how sure are you that the two walls were structural?  Did the owner at the time get them checked in any way, or is it your surveyor saying they were loadbearing?  Also, what is the relationship between the two walls - are they close together, or on opposite sides of the house?  A floorplan (of this floor and the one above) would help get you some more specific advice.  (e.g. if the two walls interact then it is potentially more of an issue)

Marleysmummy99

The owners could get retrospective building control sign off, we did this at the end of last year. We did it before we sold, it was a bit of a job but not the end of the world. Sounds unlikely here though. 

caprikid1

"the seller is saying if there were issues caused by the work being done improperly they would be apparent by now."

Not likely to say anything else.

Big risk that you will never really get to the bottom off.

sheramber

Olistanding said:

I am buying a house in the north west and have just found out that two there are no building regs for two load bearing walls that have been removed downstairs.

The works were apparently done by a previous owner 15+ years ago although i have no proof of the date.

Our solicitor has advised they have to inform the lender, the seller is saying if there were issues caused by the work being done improperly they would be apparent by now.

Our surveyor didnt notice any issies with the removed walls but the house has been decorated internally and rendered externally over the last couple of years so he caveated that this could mask any issues.

Keen to know:

- what others have done in similar situations?

- how put off the house you would be by this?

I am thinking about getting a structural surveyor to look at it but not sure how much they will be able to tell without doing something invasive.

I am paying a bit of a premium for the house because it seemed to be in good condition and the seller claimed to have all paperwork in order so its a bit frustrating to find out about this late in the process but  i am also not keen to go back to square one 

Thanks

ut about this late in the process but  i am also not keen to go back to square  

Which is what your seller is banking on. 

MysteryMe

Why didn't the seller get the work signed off by Building Control? I'd be wary proceeding on a house that has had major structural alterations and the owner took no steps to ensure the work was fit for purpose, how many other short cuts have they taken?
I certainly would not be paying a premium on this property and if the matter is not sorted either by Building Control issuing a regularisation certificate or a structural survey giving the all clear, you are merely kicking the can down the road to when the time comes for you to sell. Not to mention the risks as outlined already in this thread.  There have been instances of collapsed roads / gardens appearing where unknown works from a century ago had taken place.

Albermarle

I am wondering even if a structural survey is done, these surveyors are very good at not committing themselves to black and white answers.
Could be 'it looks OK' but with lots of caveats/bottom covering.

GrubbyGirl_2

After having 2 load bearing wall removed a few years ago I know how important it is for a structural engineer to have properly calculated the size of steels needed.  My builder admitted that he was surprised how big the steels were that the engineer required.  If he didn't get building control involved chances are he never got a structural engineer either, but you could at least ask the question.