Smart meter advice

Petitepea

Can anyone please offer some advice on the type of smart meter that would be suitable for my property which is an apartment, my meter is located inside a communal cupboard along side other residents meters so room is limited for wiring.

I am looking to have one that supports tou tariffs, I already have a multi rate meter fitted which digitally changes inside the meter between rates 1 & 2, i use all my appliances on timers within my home to align with the cheaper rate. 

Therefore are there any smart meters that have an integrated time switch inside the meter to switch between R1 & R2 as I don't have any additional wiring hooked up to an external time switch like some E7 properties do?

I've also read about 4 or 5 terminal smart meters which then baffles me even more, so I am unsure what meter I would need with regards to this?

Also am i right in thinking it is best to have tou meter fitted rather than a single rate meter as it is easier to switch back to a single rate in the future if I wanted too? 

Thanks

Netexporter

There's no such thing as a single rate smart meter. They all record half-hourly consumption. Your wiring arrangement might require a 5-wire meter, to provide switching, rather than the standard 4-wire meter. Both will give access to ToU tariffs.

Petitepea

Netexporter said:

There's no such thing as a single rate smart meter. They all record half-hourly consumption. Your wiring arrangement might require a 5-wire meter, to provide switching, rather than the standard 4-wire meter. Both will give access to ToU tariffs.

By single rate I mean one that registers units on one tariff rate/price instead of two, I read it maybe more difficult to switch in the future to a 'TOU tariff' if I was to initially get the smart meter installed on single rate tariff rather than the other way round, i wasn't sure so though I'd ask as I may wish to revert back to a single rate tariff in the future.

Netexporter

They just reprogram the meter to suit the tariff/supplier.

Scot_39

Sadly its a little more complex a problem than supporting two rates (or actually if suppliers would configure them even more allowed for) in terms of conventional old style TOU tariffs like E7 on a new smart meter.

It could be your home wiring that makes the difference to the required meter type.  Some homes have a normal power circuit live 24/7 and something often referred to as a (time) restricted circuit - only live at off peak times - controlled by their meter - on smart meters that second circuit control is known as ALCS(*)

(*) But if you rely on meter to switch power in sync with your off peak rate - known as auxiliary load control switch ALCS function for controlling devices like HW tank heaters and older in particular Night Storage heater charging - that operate simply off of a meter switched restricted time feed (so on say e7 only live for 7 hours overnight) then you will need ALCS.  

You mention you have own timers - and also

"I don't have any additional wiring hooked up to an external time switch like some E7 properties do?"

so you may not need ALCS at all - but it depends on how they and your devices are wired.

One simple check would be to check your existing meter - and see if it has 4 meter tails or 5 - and any auxiliary wiring - or check your consumer unit / fuse box (or boxes) for the number of incoming supply isolator switches.   Older ALCS homes often had 2 seperate units / boxes - mines - maybe 25 yr old+ so not that new - has 1 large but split CU - but separate manual isolator switches for 24/7 live and restricted incoming power.

And if you do currently have a restricted circuit and use it in some way (people often fit secondary boost / timer switches on HW so the hot water doesnt run full 7 hrs or purely on thermostat even on e7 restricted).  

And whilst their are 4 port models that can drive auxiliary contactors - it would probably be safer to assume you would need a 5 port with that second switch built in if space tight.

See typical examples for modern ALCS metering - posted by QRizB - the top has lower current wiring (thin vs thick) to a large external contactor

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81357476/#Comment_81357476

Some communal meter rooms / cabinets have tons of space - others are cramped.

So one other potential concern as some have experienced issues - simply physical space for meter and the wiring - smart meter + the comms hub - might be slightly taller than not only some old more compact two rate analogue meters - but inches taller - maybe 3-4" in some cases - than some old compact digital meters.

Vs old single rate analogue

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6509818/smart-meter-too-big

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80655536/#Comment_80655536

Vs compact digital - many approaching 15-20 yr EOL now.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81274977/#Comment_81274977

My old digital meter - 5 port with preset e10 and own timing / ALCS control - fitted as lost RTS. The digital wasn't much bigger than that Ampy, and it was swapped for the 4 port model + auxiliary in the QRizB example photos - much larger.  In a standard wall mounted meter box - I had nice big isolator switches - fitted by EOn c2014/5 when lost RTS - those had to be removed and things rearranged to make way for the bigger meter and the isolator when went smart c2017.

Caution - WAN signal communications - not universally good

So be careful of tariff choice.

Other smart meter tariffs - some EV and things like Cosy for electrical heating - rely on half hourly billing - they dont use R1 / R2 registers like a conventional meter / tariff like E7 - but 48 1/2 hourly readings per day - and every day. That you couldn't read of the front panel if you tried in many if not all meters.

And that is then totally dependent on a successful communications to operate - which can be trickier in some communal meter boxes in larger blocks.  

You can have dynamic half hourly billing on either type of smart meter - with or without ALCS - and for ALCS - four port or five port meter models.  

So do any of your neighbours have smart meters - you could have a look at their comms hubs and see if their WAN lights are flashing every 5 seconds - but better still maybe ask one of them if their supplier can successfully automatically download readings from their meters for billing. 

PS A photo of your old meter install at the cabinet - might help us narrow it down (can someone with 5 posts attach an image ?)

QrizB

Petitepea said:

Can anyone please offer some advice on the type of smart meter that would be suitable for my property ...

As a consumer you get essentially no choice in what type of smart meter is fitted. Your supplier will fit one that suits your supply. If you currently have a legacy ToU tariff like E7, your replacement meter will be suitable for ToU tariffs.

Petitepea

@Scot_39 I presume it decides on my existing wiring then, I can't get to the wiring below my current meter as it is sealed inside trunking.
I do know before I had my current meter fitted i had a single rate meter on a 24/7 live circuit, my current eco2020 meter (ampy 5246c) switches internally onto the cheaper rate, hence why I just use timers on my hot water tank in align with the cheaper rate.

I have checked my fuse box inside and it has 1 incoming isolator switch.

So i presume I may not need ALCS if none of my appliances are wired to an additional circuit?

Petitepea

QrizB said:

Petitepea said:

Can anyone please offer some advice on the type of smart meter that would be suitable for my property ...

As a consumer you get essentially no choice in what type of smart meter is fitted. Your supplier will fit one that suits your supply. If you currently have a legacy ToU tariff like E7, your replacement meter will be suitable for ToU tariffs.

I understand this but as I know nothing about smart meters, i at least would like to know the basics about what I may or may not require.

Scot_39

Petitepea said:

@Scot_39 I presume it decides on my existing wiring then, I can't get to the wiring below my current meter as it is sealed inside trunking.
I do know before I had my current meter fitted i had a single rate meter on a 24/7 live circuit, my current eco2020 meter (ampy 5246c) switches internally onto the cheaper rate, hence why I just use timers on my hot water tank in align with the cheaper rate.

I have checked my fuse box inside and it has 1 incoming isolator switch.

So i presume I may not need ALCS if none of my appliances are wired to an additional circuit?

Re visibility of wiring - if you cannot get to it - potentially neither will many  a meter fitter - many simply wont attempt to.  If nothing else - they may struggle to find the incoming supply isolation point - well not one specific to just your appartment - and they wont be authorised to cut power to any others.

Check with any of the neighbours who have gone smart aready and see if they had problems.

JUst basue the last guy worked around doesn't mean they all will.

There was a thread a while back who was struggling in similar circumstances.

So that might all need sorting - with your freeholder and the DNO / and if a big block - possibly the block distribution network supplier - the so called BNO - which is sometimes the local DNO, sometimes just a certified electrical installer authorised and appointed by the builder / freeholder.

I couldn't find an ampy manual quickly - but did find this Landis+Gyr 5246 generic - and it has both a 5th ALCS switched port and an auxiliary contactor built in accoring to the line diagram here - but they dont have to use those features or connect to them.  

https://www.landisgyr.com/webfoo/wp-content/uploads/product-files/5246_Technical_Specification11.pdf

And showing it with all 5 ports connected

https://forum.ovoenergy.com/home-and-heating-138/rts-switch-off-is-the-landis-gyr-5246c-meter-affected-by-the-turn-off-19543

Petitepea

@Scot_39 yes thats the meter i think landis+Gyr took over Ampy a few years ago.