Renting a room to a lodger with restrictions in the lease

bobby274

Hello,

I am about to take on a new Leasehold within London with the Freeholder being a local council.

I am close to exchanging contracts, however I noticed that within the lease there are some clauses that do not seem to allow renting out a room to a lodger, which is something I presumed I would have been able to do.

The clauses are;

- "The Tenant will remain personally resident in the Flat"

- "no other person or persons will shall reside in or occupy the Flat or any part thereof other than his spouse and children and any children of the Tenant born hereafter and their guests visitors or members of their family"

- "all such persons shall reside with the Tenant as members of the Tenant's family and not as tenants sub-tenants or lincensees of furnished or unfurnished accomodation"

Does this mean I can't rent out a room to a lodger whilst I live in the property?

Do you think the Freeholder (the local council) is likely to give permission/consent to rent out a room? My solicitor does not seem to think they would give permission to do so. And I can't find this out without it delaying the purchase even more.

I spoke to the Freeholder this morning and had a bizzare conversation with them where they thought I was the Leaseholder. Without them knowing any details of the lease they told me that you can rent a spare room when they are the Freeholder. When I explained that there were clauses restricting renting, they mentioned that they were surprised there was anything within the lease at all that would restirct this. They kind of said they don't seem to get too involved in these matters; I'm not sure what this meant, but perhaps they are saying they don't enforce the lease.

As soon as they found out I was not the leaseholder as I explained the whole situation, they shut down the conversation immediately which is understandable. (I didn't realise a general question about the likelihood of getting consent was out of bounds!)

A final question would be; when getting the lease renewed, can these clauses be removed or re-worded from the lease to allow renting to a lodger?

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Thanks all,

B

saajan_12

bobby274 said:

The clauses are;

- "The Tenant will remain personally resident in the Flat"

- "no other person or persons will shall reside in or occupy the Flat or any part thereof other than his spouse and children and any children of the Tenant born hereafter and their guests visitors or members of their family"

- "all such persons shall reside with the Tenant as members of the Tenant's family and not as tenants sub-tenants or lincensees of furnished or unfurnished accomodation"

Does this mean I can't rent out a room to a lodger whilst I live in the property?

This is a pretty bizarre lease - what if a leaseholder gets taken into care, does that breach the first point? Or if they want to move in a girl/boyfriend? 

Technically yes that is what it says - no lodgers, no friend in a flatshare, no girlfriend moving in. 

bobby274 said:

Do you think the Freeholder (the local council) is likely to give permission/consent to rent out a room? My solicitor does not seem to think they would give permission to do so. And I can't find this out without it delaying the purchase even more.

I spoke to the Freeholder this morning and had a bizzare conversation with them where they thought I was the Leaseholder. Without them knowing any details of the lease they told me that you can rent a spare room when they are the Freeholder. When I explained that there were clauses restricting renting, they mentioned that they were surprised there was anything within the lease at all that would restirct this. They kind of said they don't seem to get too involved in these matters; I'm not sure what this meant, but perhaps they are saying they don't enforce the lease.

The freeholder does know the details of the lease, they are the ones that signed the other side of it. If they're saying its fine then presumably they arent' enforcing this bizarre clause (or don't even remember it exists!)
Wouldn't be surprised if its not even enforceable - how can you force someone to live there? 

bobby274 said:

A final question would be; when getting the lease renewed, can these clauses be removed or re-worded from the lease to allow renting to a lodger?

How long is the lease? You can try, but you don't have a right to as such and the freeholder would usually only consider it if you cover all solicitor costs etc. 

Personally I wouldn't rely on renegotiating it when you're over a barrel ie already signed up to the current lease. I'd either decide its uneforceable and take the risk or I'd demand its changed before buying. 

user1977

When you say a "new leasehold" do you mean it's a new lease and you therefore have an opportunity to negotiate the terms?

sheramber

saajan_12 said:

bobby274 said:

The clauses are;

- "The Tenant will remain personally resident in the Flat"

- "no other person or persons will shall reside in or occupy the Flat or any part thereof other than his spouse and children and any children of the Tenant born hereafter and their guests visitors or members of their family"

- "all such persons shall reside with the Tenant as members of the Tenant's family and not as tenants sub-tenants or lincensees of furnished or unfurnished accomodation"

Does this mean I can't rent out a room to a lodger whilst I live in the property?

This is a pretty bizarre lease - what if a leaseholder gets taken into care, does that breach the first point? Or if they want to move in a girl/boyfriend? 

Technically yes that is what it says - no lodgers, no friend in a flatshare, no girlfriend moving in. 

bobby274 said:

Do you think the Freeholder (the local council) is likely to give permission/consent to rent out a room? My solicitor does not seem to think they would give permission to do so. And I can't find this out without it delaying the purchase even more.

I spoke to the Freeholder this morning and had a bizzare conversation with them where they thought I was the Leaseholder. Without them knowing any details of the lease they told me that you can rent a spare room when they are the Freeholder. When I explained that there were clauses restricting renting, they mentioned that they were surprised there was anything within the lease at all that would restirct this. They kind of said they don't seem to get too involved in these matters; I'm not sure what this meant, but perhaps they are saying they don't enforce the lease.

The freeholder does know the details of the lease, they are the ones that signed the other side of it. If they're saying its fine then presumably they arent' enforcing this bizarre clause (or don't even remember it exists!)
Wouldn't be surprised if its not even enforceable - how can you force someone to live there? 

bobby274 said:

A final question would be; when getting the lease renewed, can these clauses be removed or re-worded from the lease to allow renting to a lodger?

How long is the lease? You can try, but you don't have a right to as such and the freeholder would usually only consider it if you cover all solicitor costs etc. 

Personally I wouldn't rely on renegotiating it when you're over a barrel ie already signed up to the current lease. I'd either decide its uneforceable and take the risk or I'd demand its changed before buying. 

Surely, a girlfriend or boyfriend is a visitor or guest and may  even be one of the family

no other person or persons will shall reside in or occupy the Flat or any part thereof other than his spouse and children and any children of the Tenant born hereafter and their guests visitors or members of their family"

- "all such persons shall reside with the Tenant as members of the Tenant's family and not as tenants sub-tenants or lincensees of furnished or unfurnished accomodation"

poseidon1

bobby274 said:

Hello,

I am about to take on a new Leasehold within London with the Freeholder being a local council.

I am close to exchanging contracts, however I noticed that within the lease there are some clauses that do not seem to allow renting out a room to a lodger, which is something I presumed I would have been able to do.

The clauses are;

- "The Tenant will remain personally resident in the Flat"

- "no other person or persons will shall reside in or occupy the Flat or any part thereof other than his spouse and children and any children of the Tenant born hereafter and their guests visitors or members of their family"

- "all such persons shall reside with the Tenant as members of the Tenant's family and not as tenants sub-tenants or lincensees of furnished or unfurnished accomodation"

Does this mean I can't rent out a room to a lodger whilst I live in the property?

Do you think the Freeholder (the local council) is likely to give permission/consent to rent out a room? My solicitor does not seem to think they would give permission to do so. And I can't find this out without it delaying the purchase even ter more.

I spoke to the Freeholder this morning and had a bizzare conversation with them where they thought I was the Leaseholder. Without them knowing any details of the lease they told me that you can rent a spare room when they are the Freeholder. When I explained that there were clauses restricting renting, they mentioned that they were surprised there was anything within the lease at all that would restirct this. They kind of said they don't seem to get too involved in these matters; I'm not sure what this meant, but perhaps they are saying they don't enforce the lease.

As soon as they found out I was not the leaseholder as I explained the whole situation, they shut down the conversation immediately which is understandable. (I didn't realise a general question about the likelihood of getting consent was out of bounds!)

A final question would be; when getting the lease renewed, can these clauses be removed or re-worded from the lease to allow renting to a lodger?

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Thanks all,

B

Those terms read exactly like a bog standard rental agreement between a social housing landlord and rent paying tenant.

Have you confused the forum members here by suggesting you are buying a long Leasehold flat of 99 years or more when in fact you are merely entering into an Assured Shorthold Tenancy, renewable annually?

Please clarify.

user1977

poseidon1 said:

bobby274 said:

Hello,

I am about to take on a new Leasehold within London with the Freeholder being a local council.

I am close to exchanging contracts, however I noticed that within the lease there are some clauses that do not seem to allow renting out a room to a lodger, which is something I presumed I would have been able to do.

The clauses are;

- "The Tenant will remain personally resident in the Flat"

- "no other person or persons will shall reside in or occupy the Flat or any part thereof other than his spouse and children and any children of the Tenant born hereafter and their guests visitors or members of their family"

- "all such persons shall reside with the Tenant as members of the Tenant's family and not as tenants sub-tenants or lincensees of furnished or unfurnished accomodation"

Does this mean I can't rent out a room to a lodger whilst I live in the property?

Do you think the Freeholder (the local council) is likely to give permission/consent to rent out a room? My solicitor does not seem to think they would give permission to do so. And I can't find this out without it delaying the purchase even ter more.

I spoke to the Freeholder this morning and had a bizzare conversation with them where they thought I was the Leaseholder. Without them knowing any details of the lease they told me that you can rent a spare room when they are the Freeholder. When I explained that there were clauses restricting renting, they mentioned that they were surprised there was anything within the lease at all that would restirct this. They kind of said they don't seem to get too involved in these matters; I'm not sure what this meant, but perhaps they are saying they don't enforce the lease.

As soon as they found out I was not the leaseholder as I explained the whole situation, they shut down the conversation immediately which is understandable. (I didn't realise a general question about the likelihood of getting consent was out of bounds!)

A final question would be; when getting the lease renewed, can these clauses be removed or re-worded from the lease to allow renting to a lodger?

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Thanks all,

B

Those terms read exactly like a bog standard rental agreement between a social housing landlord and rent paying tenant.

Have you confused the forum members here by suggesting you are buying a long Leasehold flat of 99 years or more when in fact you are merely entering into an Assured Shorthold Tenancy, renewable annually?

They wouldn't be likely to have a solicitor if they were merely signing up as a social housing tenant (and those aren't ASTs, are they?)

poseidon1

user1977 said:

poseidon1 said:

bobby274 said:

Hello,

I am about to take on a new Leasehold within London with the Freeholder being a local council.

I am close to exchanging contracts, however I noticed that within the lease there are some clauses that do not seem to allow renting out a room to a lodger, which is something I presumed I would have been able to do.

The clauses are;

- "The Tenant will remain personally resident in the Flat"

- "no other person or persons will shall reside in or occupy the Flat or any part thereof other than his spouse and children and any children of the Tenant born hereafter and their guests visitors or members of their family"

- "all such persons shall reside with the Tenant as members of the Tenant's family and not as tenants sub-tenants or lincensees of furnished or unfurnished accomodation"

Does this mean I can't rent out a room to a lodger whilst I live in the property?

Do you think the Freeholder (the local council) is likely to give permission/consent to rent out a room? My solicitor does not seem to think they would give permission to do so. And I can't find this out without it delaying the purchase even ter more.

I spoke to the Freeholder this morning and had a bizzare conversation with them where they thought I was the Leaseholder. Without them knowing any details of the lease they told me that you can rent a spare room when they are the Freeholder. When I explained that there were clauses restricting renting, they mentioned that they were surprised there was anything within the lease at all that would restirct this. They kind of said they don't seem to get too involved in these matters; I'm not sure what this meant, but perhaps they are saying they don't enforce the lease.

As soon as they found out I was not the leaseholder as I explained the whole situation, they shut down the conversation immediately which is understandable. (I didn't realise a general question about the likelihood of getting consent was out of bounds!)

A final question would be; when getting the lease renewed, can these clauses be removed or re-worded from the lease to allow renting to a lodger?

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Thanks all,

B

Those terms read exactly like a bog standard rental agreement between a social housing landlord and rent paying tenant.

Have you confused the forum members here by suggesting you are buying a long Leasehold flat of 99 years or more when in fact you are merely entering into an Assured Shorthold Tenancy, renewable annually?

They wouldn't be likely to have a solicitor if they were merely signing up as a social housing tenant (and those aren't ASTs, are they?)

We may never know, if there is no further response.