Refunded 'short'

Gers

Back in May I booked for an event at Glasgow Royal Concert Hall for September. The event has been cancelled. I've received a refund of the event fee but not the transaction fee. 

Is this correct? It's only £3.75. Thanks.

la531983

Yup perfectly standard across the industry.

Gers

la531983 said:

Yup perfectly standard across the industry.

Thanks - rubbish though! 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Unfortunately it isn't practical to recover £3.75 in terms of the time and effort that would be required OP.

I think it depends upon whether there is a breach of contract or not, typically the party suffering the breach should be in the position they would have had been in had the breach not occurred but as an event is often unique it's hard to see how that can be applied in such a situation.

I guess if you booked to see a show in London which was cancelled and you instead went to the same show in a different location you shouldn't suffer any additional costs in rebooking the show. 

There is (now withdrawn) guidance stating booking fees should generally be refunded, the guidance which replaces this is more general and doesn't appear to specifically mention booking fees but instead focuses on a more general overview of fairness due to consumer protection evolving to become more broad but in turn less specific. 

Should the £3.75 be due I'd think the company holding the event would likely be liable (if a third party booked the tickets they have performed the service, if you lose that fee then the party hosting the event would be the one in breach by cancelling). 

Should the terms allow you to cancel at the point the event is cancelled this would to my knowledge be viewed as a fair and balanced contract so I'm not sure how that would play out with booking fees as I don't believe there would be a breach.

If however the terms didn't permit you to cancel in order for there to be balance the other party (the event host) also generally wouldn't be able to cancel, whilst giving consideration to a fairness test with regards to; a term which has the object or effect of authorising the trader to dissolve the contract on a discretionary basis where the same facility is not granted to the consumer. 

In such a situation I don't see why you shouldn’t be due the booking fee, it's certainly industry standard to retain booking fees but that doesn't necessarily mean it's correct, however until the retention of such fees has a significant adverse affect on consumer behaviour it's unlikely the likes of the CMA will take the time to clarify the situation. 

Above assumes I'm not missing where the likes of the CMA have already stated such fees may indeed be retained. 

Gers

Thanks for the comprehensive response - I didn't cancel - the entertainer cancelled.

"Hey everyone, unfortunately I am having to pull the Glasgow Royal Concert Hall Show due to a massive opportunity that has come my way which I cannot pass. You will be issued a refund and there will be a new date/venue for Glasgow released soon. Apologies for any inconvenience this may cause.

I'll approach the venue to test the water  - shy bairns get nowt so it's worth a punt, not worth a battle though!

EDIT - turns out that it's £6.30 I've not been refunded. More fightable I think.

MyRealNameToo

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Unfortunately it isn't practical to recover £3.75 in terms of the time and effort that would be required OP.

I think it depends upon whether there is a breach of contract or not, typically the party suffering the breach should be in the position they would have had been in had the breach not occurred but as an event is often unique it's hard to see how that can be applied in such a situation.

I guess if you booked to see a show in London which was cancelled and you instead went to the same show in a different location you shouldn't suffer any additional costs in rebooking the show. 

There is (now withdrawn) guidance stating booking fees should generally be refunded, the guidance which replaces this is more general and doesn't appear to specifically mention booking fees but instead focuses on a more general overview of fairness due to consumer protection evolving to become more broad but in turn less specific. 

Should the £3.75 be due I'd think the company holding the event would likely be liable (if a third party booked the tickets they have performed the service, if you lose that fee then the party hosting the event would be the one in breach by cancelling). 

Should the terms allow you to cancel at the point the event is cancelled this would to my knowledge be viewed as a fair and balanced contract so I'm not sure how that would play out with booking fees as I don't believe there would be a breach.

If however the terms didn't permit you to cancel in order for there to be balance the other party (the event host) also generally wouldn't be able to cancel, whilst giving consideration to a fairness test with regards to; a term which has the object or effect of authorising the trader to dissolve the contract on a discretionary basis where the same facility is not granted to the consumer. 

In such a situation I don't see why you shouldn’t be due the booking fee, it's certainly industry standard to retain booking fees but that doesn't necessarily mean it's correct, however until the retention of such fees has a significant adverse affect on consumer behaviour it's unlikely the likes of the CMA will take the time to clarify the situation. 

Above assumes I'm not missing where the likes of the CMA have already stated such fees may indeed be retained. 

What are you assuming the contractual structure is between the Buyer, Seller and Promoter? 

Looking at one firm's terms its effectively a pair of contracts, one for buyer and seller and the other for the buyer and promoter. The former is for providing the ability to buy a ticket the other for the actual ticket, the event etc. 

The promoter breaches their contract with the buyer by cancelling the event and therefore they owe a refund for the ticket. 

Whilst morally I think the seller should also refund their fees and claim any losses from the Promotor I'm not fully convinced the first contract has actually been breached as they did facilitate the sale as promised. Their contract doesnt guarantee entry to the event nor that the event will actually occur; that is all subject to the agreement with the Promoter 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

MyRealNameToo said:

Looking at one firm's terms its effectively a pair of contracts, one for buyer and seller and the other for the buyer and promoter. The former is for providing the ability to buy a ticket the other for the actual ticket, the event etc. 

The promoter breaches their contract with the buyer by cancelling the event and therefore they owe a refund for the ticket. 

I do understand this and agree if a third party company simply books the tickets they haven't breached their contract, but if any party breaches a contract generally damages are available to be claimed so as long as they are foreseeable and arise from the breach, such a loss does arise from the breach and I can't see why a booking fee wouldn't be classed as foreseeable? 

Gers said:

Thanks for the comprehensive response - I didn't cancel - the entertainer cancelled.

"Hey everyone, unfortunately I am having to pull the Glasgow Royal Concert Hall Show due to a massive opportunity that has come my way which I cannot pass. You will be issued a refund and there will be a new date/venue for Glasgow released soon. Apologies for any inconvenience this may cause.

It is possible an event could be cancelled for a valid reason in line with the terms without being classed as a breach, although having a better opportunity come along isn't going to be viewed as a valid reason! 

Gers

I appreciate all the comments - as the un-refunded fees are approx 19% of my whole payment I remain peeved! I've written an email to Glasgow Life, not expecting a positive response but I will wiggle away with them.

Thanks.