Bathroom Extractor fan

WIAWSNB

P933alilli said:

WIAWSNB said:

Hi P933.
If the £180 includes labour, as it appears to, then I see nothing wrong with that quote. It's quite an involved job, with the 'electrics' part being minor.
He installed an isolating switch on the wall above the bathroom light switch, as he should, and had to fit the actual extractor and ducting to a suitable venting point outside. All in all, one of my most disliked jobs to do.
You aren't convinced by it's performance, tho'. For this we need to understand what it's actually managing to do in the 20 minutes run time.
You mention 'condensation'. This is the mistiness caused by the hot water vapour from your showering, and is typically visible on mirrors and other smooth cool surfaces like your toilet cistern, tiled areas, etc. Yes? So, do these areas become dry and clear within the 20 minutes? If 'yes', roughly how quickly?
You also mention the droplets inside your shower. I'm assuming these are from the actual shower flow, so much larger droplets. If so, then an extractor is unlikely to clear these away as they'll need a significant air flow directly over them in order to be dried away within 20 minutes.
So could you clarify what, exactly, is achieved by the fans in 20 minutes?
I'm not surprised that the suction cannot hold a plastic card - I'll try that with my own 5" extractor to confirm. They aren't high 'pressure', but more high 'volume'. They can shift quite a lot of air, but not under much actual force - it just isn't needed.
I usually 'test' an extractor by holding a sheet of bog roll under it, and raising it slowly towards the grille. I'd expect it to get drawn on to it when around a couple of inches away - I think. Again, I'll need to check.
I don't think there's anything that wrong with your fans, and the cost appears fair. Possibly a humidistat model would have made more sense, but I think you'd find it running for a looking time.
When I 'extract' after a shower, I leave the bathroom door ajar to allow a steady through draught. Once the visible condie has gone, I then turn off the fan, and leave the door wide open to vent fully. At this point, the insides of the shower will still have water droplets on it. If I wanted that clear, I'd have to squeegee them all down first as soon as I've finished showering. Can't be bothered...

I'd say it achieves virtually nothing and it was running for 30 minutes as i put the lights on for ten minutes beforehand! The mirrors and windows are full of condensation after this time. I dont want to leave the bathroom door open as it would create condensation in the hall which i dont want!

Ok, if the mirrors don't clear after just five minutes, something is amiss.
Could you post a pic of the fan, to see if we can ID the model, please?
And where does it vent outside to? Can you see a grille in the soffit, for instance?
Did you have an extractor before, or is this the very first?
How detailed is the quote and/or invoice? What's on it?

bjorn_toby_wilde

P933alilli said:

WIAWSNB said:

Hi P933.
If the £180 includes labour, as it appears to, then I see nothing wrong with that quote. It's quite an involved job, with the 'electrics' part being minor.
He installed an isolating switch on the wall above the bathroom light switch, as he should, and had to fit the actual extractor and ducting to a suitable venting point outside. All in all, one of my most disliked jobs to do.
You aren't convinced by it's performance, tho'. For this we need to understand what it's actually managing to do in the 20 minutes run time.
You mention 'condensation'. This is the mistiness caused by the hot water vapour from your showering, and is typically visible on mirrors and other smooth cool surfaces like your toilet cistern, tiled areas, etc. Yes? So, do these areas become dry and clear within the 20 minutes? If 'yes', roughly how quickly?
You also mention the droplets inside your shower. I'm assuming these are from the actual shower flow, so much larger droplets. If so, then an extractor is unlikely to clear these away as they'll need a significant air flow directly over them in order to be dried away within 20 minutes.
So could you clarify what, exactly, is achieved by the fans in 20 minutes?
I'm not surprised that the suction cannot hold a plastic card - I'll try that with my own 5" extractor to confirm. They aren't high 'pressure', but more high 'volume'. They can shift quite a lot of air, but not under much actual force - it just isn't needed.
I usually 'test' an extractor by holding a sheet of bog roll under it, and raising it slowly towards the grille. I'd expect it to get drawn on to it when around a couple of inches away - I think. Again, I'll need to check.
I don't think there's anything that wrong with your fans, and the cost appears fair. Possibly a humidistat model would have made more sense, but I think you'd find it running for a looking time.
When I 'extract' after a shower, I leave the bathroom door ajar to allow a steady through draught. Once the visible condie has gone, I then turn off the fan, and leave the door wide open to vent fully. At this point, the insides of the shower will still have water droplets on it. If I wanted that clear, I'd have to squeegee them all down first as soon as I've finished showering. Can't be bothered...

I'd say it achieves virtually nothing and it was running for 30 minutes as i put the lights on for ten minutes beforehand! The mirrors and windows are full of condensation after this time. I dont want to leave the bathroom door open as it would create condensation in the hall which i dont want!

That’s not really how it would work. The fan should pull dry air into the room from the hallway if you leave the door open a bit.

If you have all the doors and windows shut then you can’t expect it to work well. The fan has a big 4” diameter duct on one side to push air into and only the tiny gap under the door to pull fresh air from.

Mr.Generous

WIAWSNB said:

Hi P933.
If the £180 includes labour, as it appears to, then I see nothing wrong with that quote. It's quite an involved job, with the 'electrics' part being minor.
He installed an isolating switch on the wall above the bathroom light switch, as he should, and had to fit the actual extractor and ducting to a suitable venting point outside. All in all, one of my most disliked jobs to do.
You aren't convinced by it's performance, tho'. For this we need to understand what it's actually managing to do in the 20 minutes run time.
You mention 'condensation'. This is the mistiness caused by the hot water vapour from your showering, and is typically visible on mirrors and other smooth cool surfaces like your toilet cistern, tiled areas, etc. Yes? So, do these areas become dry and clear within the 20 minutes? If 'yes', roughly how quickly?
You also mention the droplets inside your shower. I'm assuming these are from the actual shower flow, so much larger droplets. If so, then an extractor is unlikely to clear these away as they'll need a significant air flow directly over them in order to be dried away within 20 minutes.
So could you clarify what, exactly, is achieved by the fans in 20 minutes?
I'm not surprised that the suction cannot hold a plastic card - I'll try that with my own 5" extractor to confirm. They aren't high 'pressure', but more high 'volume'. They can shift quite a lot of air, but not under much actual force - it just isn't needed.
I usually 'test' an extractor by holding a sheet of bog roll under it, and raising it slowly towards the grille. I'd expect it to get drawn on to it when around a couple of inches away - I think. Again, I'll need to check.
I don't think there's anything that wrong with your fans, and the cost appears fair. Possibly a humidistat model would have made more sense, but I think you'd find it running for a looking time.
When I 'extract' after a shower, I leave the bathroom door ajar to allow a steady through draught. Once the visible condie has gone, I then turn off the fan, and leave the door wide open to vent fully. At this point, the insides of the shower will still have water droplets on it. If I wanted that clear, I'd have to squeegee them all down first as soon as I've finished showering. Can't be bothered...

Spot on. This is a very good detailed responce. With doors and windows shut the fan will indeed do very little. its a low pressure fan - did you think it would dry a wet room? In some circumstances electricians fit fans that run all the time but at a low level, that might be an option you need if the room is prone to mould. Swapping the fan would be cheap now as the wiring - as in 4 core cable - is the same and the ducting/venting the same. 

WIAWSNB

Mr.Generous said:

Spot on. This is a very good detailed responce. With doors and windows shut the fan will indeed do very little. its a low pressure fan - did you think it would dry a wet room? In some circumstances electricians fit fans that run all the time but at a low level, that might be an option you need if the room is prone to mould. Swapping the fan would be cheap now as the wiring - as in 4 core cable - is the same and the ducting/venting the same. 

My bro had one of them fitted in his flat. Awesome. 

Silent when on tickover, and near-silent when doing its job.

App-controlled, and responds to everything you choose and could want - humidity, timings, Alexa instructions, and... yup, odour.

Awesome   

sheenas

I did plenty of research about bathroom fans. You need the right type. In your case a cyclone type. Then it needs to extract 4x per hour the volume of air as the size of the room. The fans I used run all the time and boost when the light is on. This works very well and the room humidity remains low.

P933alilli

WIAWSNB said:

P933alilli said:

WIAWSNB said:

Hi P933.
If the £180 includes labour, as it appears to, then I see nothing wrong with that quote. It's quite an involved job, with the 'electrics' part being minor.
He installed an isolating switch on the wall above the bathroom light switch, as he should, and had to fit the actual extractor and ducting to a suitable venting point outside. All in all, one of my most disliked jobs to do.
You aren't convinced by it's performance, tho'. For this we need to understand what it's actually managing to do in the 20 minutes run time.
You mention 'condensation'. This is the mistiness caused by the hot water vapour from your showering, and is typically visible on mirrors and other smooth cool surfaces like your toilet cistern, tiled areas, etc. Yes? So, do these areas become dry and clear within the 20 minutes? If 'yes', roughly how quickly?
You also mention the droplets inside your shower. I'm assuming these are from the actual shower flow, so much larger droplets. If so, then an extractor is unlikely to clear these away as they'll need a significant air flow directly over them in order to be dried away within 20 minutes.
So could you clarify what, exactly, is achieved by the fans in 20 minutes?
I'm not surprised that the suction cannot hold a plastic card - I'll try that with my own 5" extractor to confirm. They aren't high 'pressure', but more high 'volume'. They can shift quite a lot of air, but not under much actual force - it just isn't needed.
I usually 'test' an extractor by holding a sheet of bog roll under it, and raising it slowly towards the grille. I'd expect it to get drawn on to it when around a couple of inches away - I think. Again, I'll need to check.
I don't think there's anything that wrong with your fans, and the cost appears fair. Possibly a humidistat model would have made more sense, but I think you'd find it running for a looking time.
When I 'extract' after a shower, I leave the bathroom door ajar to allow a steady through draught. Once the visible condie has gone, I then turn off the fan, and leave the door wide open to vent fully. At this point, the insides of the shower will still have water droplets on it. If I wanted that clear, I'd have to squeegee them all down first as soon as I've finished showering. Can't be bothered...

I'd say it achieves virtually nothing and it was running for 30 minutes as i put the lights on for ten minutes beforehand! The mirrors and windows are full of condensation after this time. I dont want to leave the bathroom door open as it would create condensation in the hall which i dont want!

Ok, if the mirrors don't clear after just five minutes, something is amiss.
Could you post a pic of the fan, to see if we can ID the model, please?
And where does it vent outside to? Can you see a grille in the soffit, for instance?
Did you have an extractor before, or is this the very first?
How detailed is the quote and/or invoice? What's on it?

I cant post a pic atm!  There are no visible signs of work on the soffit but i'm sure it must run through there. First time ive had a fan in the bathroom! Good point re; quote and invoice! The quote was awful he gave by email and was using some new software which he alluded to and asked could i understand it. Ive had no invoice so far, only the installation certificate for the rewire! Maybe i should get in touch with him! He sub-contracts with Network rail so possibly fits jobs in like mine atm. The work was done over 2.5 days. Day 1. his chasers cut everything out near the sockets & switches. Day 2. He thread all the cables/wires through and was here 8-9 hours. Day 3. Fitted the fans in kitchen & bathroom, fitted L.E.D dome light fittings in two rooms and put a fusebox in the garage with a new socket further back. Finished that in 5 hours!

ic

Stick your head in the loft and see if you can grab photos of where the fan goes.

Most 100mm axial fans are only good for venting in a straight line out of the wall - introduce ducting from a ceiling out to soffit, where you have say two 90 degree turns, and the fan will struggle to push the air.  This video demonstrates the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25LjXM38ass&ab_channel=eFIXX and shows how not all fans are equal.

Lets hope your fan has been ducted somewhere, and that the ducting is insulated - we've had many people ask in the past about condensation gathering within the ducting during colder weather as the fan fails to blow the air fully out...

As has been suggested ideal world you'd install a fan with trickle vent (i.e. slow speed all the time) then spinning up to full speed via a humidistat.  In my bathrooms using Vent Axia Svara fans that vent through the wall to outside, the room will take a couple of hours to fully clear - we have gaps under the door allowing air in to the room.  In warmer weather I always open windows and generally leave them most of the day.  The humidistat will keep the fan going until the moisture has been cleared, and theres no manual intervention required via the light switch (unless your bathroom has no windows, who turns the light on in summer?).

If your ducting is particularly long or convoluted, you may need a centrifugal fan that can achieve the static pressure needed to push the air the full length of the ducting.

This video is well worth a watch too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvSE9aAmeGk&t=846s&ab_channel=CharlieDIYte%28CharlieDIYte%29

P933alilli

On closer inspection i dont know if the bathroom extractor is a Vimark! The kitchen fan definitely is and has the Vimark insignia on the plastic surround....this one measures 100mm in diameter! The bathroom fan only measures 90mm in diameter but doesnt have the Vimark insignia. It also a circular design, probably for aesthetic reasons as the spotlights are circular, albeit theyre smaller, and the plastic surround is very narrow, probably an inch in diameter. The kitchen device is square and larger! Possibly the circular one is just a guard on the bathroom ceiling with the fan itself behind it an inch or so....so hes had to attach it in the loft? So, possibly it is the same make and model! I'll have to get up there to check. I mean, really i shouldnt be needing to do all this as i have wear & tear in a knee and in my lower back on top of other stuff thats happened these last few years. The plasterers who filled the chases have also left some of their work un-smooth so ive contacted them to come and sand it down. They say they'll be here from 3pm to look at any defects!

WIAWSNB

Do you have anyone who could go up in the loft for a gander? If so, they could check the fan from up there and try and ID the make and model. But also check the type of ducting, and its route. Photos are always good  

bjorn_toby_wilde

P933alilli said:

On closer inspection i dont know if the bathroom extractor is a Vimark! The kitchen fan definitely is and has the Vimark insignia on the plastic surround....this one measures 100mm in diameter! The bathroom fan only measures 90mm in diameter but doesnt have the Vimark insignia. It also a circular design, probably for aesthetic reasons as the spotlights are circular, albeit theyre smaller, and the plastic surround is very narrow, probably an inch in diameter. The kitchen device is square and larger! Possibly the circular one is just a guard on the bathroom ceiling with the fan itself behind it an inch or so....so hes had to attach it in the loft? So, possibly it is the same make and model! I'll have to get up there to check. I mean, really i shouldnt be needing to do all this as i have wear & tear in a knee and in my lower back on top of other stuff thats happened these last few years. The plasterers who filled the chases have also left some of their work un-smooth so ive contacted them to come and sand it down. They say they'll be here from 3pm to look at any defects!

How would knowing the make and model help you?

What you describe sounds like an inlet, with an in-line fan fitted further up the ducting in the loft.

Have you shared your concerns with the electrician? It would probably be better to ask him. If I were him I’d like to know if a customer was unhappy and he can’t advise you or change anything if he doesn’t know about it.