Need Help: Leak in Copper Inlet Pipe to Cold Water Tank – Photo & Video Attached

Section62

sujsuj said:

Before I bring someone in, I need to do a bit of prep work to get the loft partially boarded in that area (otherwise, I suspect I’ll be calling a ceiling specialist next!).

You've got an electrical junction box more or less below the leaking elbow... you need to be really careful that damp hasn't got into the junction box (or anything else) which might create enough of a circuit to give you (or the plumber) a nasty shock if you come into contact with something 'live' and something 'earthed'...  and since the copper pipe is probably bonded to the supply earth, that could be what does it.

Until things have dried out, don't touch the cables or junction box without isolating the supply first.

Also bear in mind a loft is one of the worst places to get yourself electrocuted... it makes it difficult for the paramedics to get to you, and difficult for them to get you out and into the ambulance.

WIAWSNB

sujsuj said:

stuart45 said:

Another easy option for DIY if there isn't enough slack in the pipes is to get a short length of hand bendable pipe, 2 Speedfit couplers, and a cheap pipe splice. For less than £20, you can repair it. It doesn't really matter about the looks up there. Remember, more than one pro plumber has made a really neat job using end feed, only to go off leaving the roof space to burst into flames a few hours later.

After a close inspection yesterday while it was dry, I realised it’s not a loose joint—the pipe itself is corroded and damaged at the bend, with a visible pinhole. This means I’ll definitely need to cut out that section and use something like the item you mentioned or the  Screwfix item @WIAWSNB mentioned.

If you do decide to DIY this using a push-fit, it is essential to use a rotary pipe cutter, or at least ensure the cut pipe ends are rounded and burr-free. 

If you survive the shock - nice spot, S62. 

sujsuj

WIAWSNB said:

To fix, replace with a 'swept' elbow which will hopefully have a longer span to bypass the soldered ends. Eg: Eg https://www.screwfix.com/p/tectite-sprint-copper-push-fit-equal-90-elbow-15mm/6486g
Or, a compression fitting, ideally with a smear of jointing paste.
Unless experienced, I'd avoid soldering as there will be residual water which can cause issues. But if you can drain fully, and dry it using heat, no reason not to.
For a temp measure, I doubt tape - amalgamating or duct - will work since it's mains pressure. A solder blob should, but again needs a dry and empty pipe.
You can 'control' the flow, tho', by wrapping a strip of cloth around it, and dangling the end in a pan - the water will soak downwards and should end up safely in there. 
What I'd do until a plumber comes is to completely fill that tank whilst keeping an eye on the keak, shut off the supply, and use the contents. Then refill as required, always observing...

I managed to drain pipe  completely before applying my crude DIY fix. The responses from you all have given me several options to consider. I definitely need to cut out that bend and then insert one of the solutions mentioned above. I'm leaning more towards using a compression elbow—provided it gives me enough length on both sides to fit properly. Thanks.

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WIAWSNB

sujsuj said:

I managed to drain pipe  completely before applying my crude DIY fix. The responses from you all have given me several options to consider. I definitely need to cut out that bend and then insert one of the solutions mentioned above. I'm leaning more towards using a compression elbow—provided it gives me enough length on both sides to fit properly. Thanks.

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In that sort of situation I'd also be happier with a comp fitting (with smear of paste) than a pushfit, especially if using 'push' on copper. 

I can't see any 'swept' comp elbows which should give you a longer reach, so if you have a blow torch you could remove that elbow. The remaining solder coating may need cleaning up to allow the olive to slip on, but good chance you can do this relatively easily - say blowtorch plus quick wire brush. Or even gentle use of a file or emery cloth. Solder is soft, and doesn't need much pressure.

As long as you don't damage the actual copper pipe, you should be fine. 

Solder is so soft there's a good chance you can even gently tap the olive on to the pipe, and it'll 'shave' it's way on! The pipe will need supporting, of course, and you can use the comp fitting's nut to act as the drift. But stop if it's tough going. 

Section62

WIAWSNB said:

Solder is so soft there's a good chance you can even gently tap the olive on to the pipe, and it'll 'shave' it's way on! The pipe will need supporting, of course, and you can use the comp fitting's nut to act as the drift. But stop if it's tough going. 

Personally I wouldn't do that (too much risk of the olive getting damaged and/or not making a good seal) - but if you do then it is important to put the fitting's nut onto the pipe (the right way round) before knocking the olive on... because once the olive is on it isn't likely to be coming off again easily.

And buy some spare olives just in case.

But there should be enough slack on the pipes that cutting the elbow out with a rotary cutter and using a speedfit elbow would be the easiest, quickest and cheapest* DIY fix.

(*possibly)

FreeBear

WIAWSNB said:

Blimey! That looks like a spontaneous pinhole.
My bro had one of them in a straight run of old 1/2" copper under his floor many years ago. Fortunately the FH sorted it all, including the ceiling damage to the flat below.
He brought the offending piece of pipe to me at Christmas - nice pressie - and I couldn't work out the cause. And it was in a hard water area.
I can only assume an impurity in the copper finally corroded through?

During the late 1970s and 1980s, there was a load of really poor quality copper pipe flooding the market. The major housing developers used significant quantities of this pipe because it was cheap. 25 years later, pinholes started to appear as the stuff started to corrode - I've been called upon to fix these leaks on a couple of occasions.

Also seen heavy corrosion on pipes (and fittings) where flux wasn't cleaned off and neutralised. If you use an acid flux (which plumbers flux is), it is worth wiping the joint down with a solution of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Clean a few inches either side of the joint as the flux does travel.

WIAWSNB

Section62 said:

Personally I wouldn't do that (too much risk of the olive getting damaged and/or not making a good seal) - but if you do then it is important to put the fitting's nut onto the pipe (the right way round) before knocking the olive on... because once the olive is on it isn't likely to be coming off again easily.

D'oh!

Yes, it ain't a conventional solution. I only suggested it because I've done it myself when there was little alternative. Best not to do my type of bodge, tho'. 

sujsuj

FreeBear said:

WIAWSNB said:

Blimey! That looks like a spontaneous pinhole.
My bro had one of them in a straight run of old 1/2" copper under his floor many years ago. Fortunately the FH sorted it all, including the ceiling damage to the flat below.
He brought the offending piece of pipe to me at Christmas - nice pressie - and I couldn't work out the cause. And it was in a hard water area.
I can only assume an impurity in the copper finally corroded through?

During the late 1970s and 1980s, there was a load of really poor quality copper pipe flooding the market. The major housing developers used significant quantities of this pipe because it was cheap. 25 years later, pinholes started to appear as the stuff started to corrode - I've been called upon to fix these leaks on a couple of occasions.

Also seen heavy corrosion on pipes (and fittings) where flux wasn't cleaned off and neutralised. If you use an acid flux (which plumbers flux is), it is worth wiping the joint down with a solution of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Clean a few inches either side of the joint as the flux does travel.

This is very helpful. thanks