German cars & permanent indicators?

Grey_Critic

***They don't even need to work for the MOT, so they are hardly necessary.....***

Brake light - Two out of three have to work

Mildly_Miffed

facade said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

(Rather like increasing safety by having ultra bright red lights shining into your eyes at eye level whenever a car is stationary when even the stupidest numptie would have legislated for them to time out a few seconds after the car becomes stationary...)

...or the driver could put their handbrake on, rather than sit with their foot on the brake pedal.

I'm not sure having brake lights "time out" is the right answer.

I am

Just the supplementary ones designed to blind you at eye level.  The original purpose was supposed to be visible through the car in front (no-one thought of vans....) to give advance warning of braking, rather than to inform you that you were sitting behind an automatic/EV by leaving you with spots in front of your eyes when they have gone. They don't even need to work for the MOT, so they are hardly necessary.....

The obligatory ones can stay on, you can just roll forwards a couple more feet and get them below your bonnet line in a queue.

Mmmhmm.

I've got two vehicles with side brakelights about 1-1.3m above ground level. One of them has the centre brakelight about 1.7m, the other about 2.5m.

Car_54

Grey_Critic said:

***They don't even need to work for the MOT, so they are hardly necessary.....***

Brake light - Two out of three have to work

Not so. The two obligatory lamps (one each side) are exactly that - obligatory. They must both work.

Mildly_Miffed

"Vehicles first used on or after 1 January 1971 must have 2 stop lamps, one on each side.
...
Additional stop lamps, over and above the obligatory requirements, must be tested. However, if you are not sure that they’re connected, you should give the benefit of the doubt."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment#section-4-3-3

Now, the interesting detail here is that while the MOT does not view the high-level centre brake light as "obligatory", it IS obligatory on all cars post 1997 or so, and vans a little later.

Car_54

Mildly_Miffed said:

Now, the interesting detail here is that while the MOT does not view the high-level centre brake light as "obligatory", it IS obligatory on all cars post 1997 or so, and vans a little later.

Really? Can you point to the relevant legislation?

born_again

facade said:

(Rather like increasing safety by having ultra bright red lights shining into your eyes at eye level whenever a car is stationary when even the stupidest numptie would have legislated for them to time out a few seconds after the car becomes stationary...)

I guess you are not too old.
 I remember these when they were 1st brought out. Tomorrows World featured them. They are designed to help cars further back be able to see that a car in front is stopping. Thus helping to stop multiple car pile ups. As cars behind just ran into the back of cars in front..
With eye level brake lights you can see them through the car in front. 👍

facade

Mildly_Miffed said:

I've got two vehicles with side brakelights about 1-1.3m above ground level. One of them has the centre brakelight about 1.7m, the other about 2.5m.

I can't think of anything that I'd classify as a car in the last 10 years that has brake lights that high, but there was a trend in the 90s for high rear lights on Japanese 4x4s, IIRC my Terrano had the position & brake lights about that high on the rear pillars.

As I interpret RVLR 1989, there is no limit on the height of optional brake lights. Obligatory lights (post 1971) must be between 350 and 1500mm from the road unless there is a reason why they can't be fitted that low, when 2100mm becomes the limit.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/12/part/I

Mildly_Miffed

facade said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

I've got two vehicles with side brakelights about 1-1.3m above ground level. One of them has the centre brakelight about 1.7m, the other about 2.5m.

I can't think of anything that I'd classify as a car in the last 10 years that has brake lights that high, but there was a trend in the 90s for high rear lights on Japanese 4x4s

Well, just over 10yo, but otherwise spot on...

The clue for the other is in the height of the centre brake light.