Bike insurance claim help…. Please!!!

Benjibontheta

Hi all - please help!

My insurance company have turned down my claim for bicycle theft.

i was in the house at the time, so the front door wasn’t locked.

I think the wording is vague, would really appreciate any help.

The security requirements from appendix 1 mention “security devices” but no definition of secure devices is given.

Am I clutching at straws?

Voyager2002

For insurance purposes, "forcible or violent entry" means that the thief (or burglar) did not simply walk through an open door, but had to turn the handle or otherwise take some action to enter your property without permission. You say that your front door was unlocked because you were at home: was it actually open? Perhaps when you made your claim, you used the word "open" to mean that it was not locked. If so, you should clarify this point.

MyRealNameToo

Voyager2002 said:

For insurance purposes, "forcible or violent entry" means that the thief (or burglar) did not simply walk through an open door, but had to turn the handle or otherwise take some action to enter your property without permission. You say that your front door was unlocked because you were at home: was it actually open? Perhaps when you made your claim, you used the word "open" to mean that it was not locked. If so, you should clarify this point.

For a start this is forcible and violent entry not or. This would mean breaking a window, drilling a lock, ramming a door not simply turning a door handle. 

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN0411589.pdf is a good example, the thief used a key and a master code for the alarm to get in and out. The ombudsman agreed that use of the key is forcible but it is not violent and therefore didnt uphold the complaint

Benjibontheta

MyRealNameToo said:

Voyager2002 said:

For insurance purposes, "forcible or violent entry" means that the thief (or burglar) did not simply walk through an open door, but had to turn the handle or otherwise take some action to enter your property without permission. You say that your front door was unlocked because you were at home: was it actually open? Perhaps when you made your claim, you used the word "open" to mean that it was not locked. If so, you should clarify this point.

For a start this is forcible and violent entry not or. This would mean breaking a window, drilling a lock, ramming a door not simply turning a handle.

…is a good example, the thief used a key and a master code for the alarm to get in and out. The ombudsman agreed that use of the key is forcible but it is not violent and therefore didnt uphold the complaint

So basically, I’m clutching at straws.

MyRealNameToo

Benjibontheta said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Voyager2002 said:

For insurance purposes, "forcible or violent entry" means that the thief (or burglar) did not simply walk through an open door, but had to turn the handle or otherwise take some action to enter your property without permission. You say that your front door was unlocked because you were at home: was it actually open? Perhaps when you made your claim, you used the word "open" to mean that it was not locked. If so, you should clarify this point.

For a start this is forcible and violent entry not or. This would mean breaking a window, drilling a lock, ramming a door not simply turning a handle.

…is a good example, the thief used a key and a master code for the alarm to get in and out. The ombudsman agreed that use of the key is forcible but it is not violent and therefore didnt uphold the complaint

So basically, I’m clutching at straws.

There needs to be either evidence of violence, in most cases this will be damage to your property where they gained access but it can also be a threat of violence to yourself. There are various other cases on the ombudsman ranging from people pushing through into the house after the insured opened the door to people entering the property under deception and the insured not reacting when the people who'd claimed to be a meter reader or such walked out the house carrying the insured property because they feared violence would occur. 

It certainly doesnt look good if it was simply a case of you forgetting to lock the door and the thieves just let themselves in and out without you even noticing. 

Benjibontheta

Cheers.

Bit of a disaster then.

Exodi

Benjibontheta said:

i was in the house at the time, so the front door wasn’t locked.

How you've worded this has me now confused whether you're insane or I'm insane.

The word 'so' implies that it is natural that the door should be unlocked by virtue of you being in?

I keep the front door locked whether I'm in or out. Otherwise, it is uncomfortable to think about someone being able to walk in unnoticed because I happened to be in the garden or upstairs.

Do you sleep with the front door unlocked at night?

MyRealNameToo

Exodi said:

Benjibontheta said:

i was in the house at the time, so the front door wasn’t locked.

How you've worded this has me now confused whether you're insane or I'm insane.

The word 'so' implies that it is natural that the door should be unlocked by virtue of you being in?

I keep the front door locked whether I'm in or out. Otherwise, it is uncomfortable to think about someone being able to walk in unnoticed because I happened to be in the garden or upstairs.

Do you sleep with the front door unlocked at night?

We've had other people on here stating they never lock their door even when they are out. When I was a member many years ago there was a long running thread from someone who basically said that their rear door was never locked and their regular postman would let themselves in and put any parcels/mail on the kitchen table but they were "shocked" when coming in to find a substitute postman in their kitchen and questioning if the substitute should have let themselves in or not. 

Similar to your reaction there were many very surprised that anyone who is basically a stranger is ok letting themselves in and that the rear door was never locked even if the property is empty. 

The question on the sub was quickly lost and discussion on security -v- the loss of community with many saying their door used to be open all the time in the X0s etc

Aretnap

Exodi said:

Benjibontheta said:

i was in the house at the time, so the front door wasn’t locked.

How you've worded this has me now confused whether you're insane or I'm insane.

The word 'so' implies that it is natural that the door should be unlocked by virtue of you being in?

I keep the front door locked whether I'm in or out. Otherwise, it is uncomfortable to think about someone being able to walk in unnoticed because I happened to be in the garden or upstairs.

Do you sleep with the front door unlocked at night?

I'm my own case the front door is locked when I go out, and when I go to bed at night, but it wouldn't occur to me too lock it when I'm at home during the daytime. 

Obviously different people have different ways of looking at it, but in my own experience leaving it unlocked while your at home and up and about the house is fairly normal - and certainly not in any way extraordinary.

Unless you have a door that locks automatically of course but I wouldn't fancy having one of those again - I'm far to prone to stepping outside without a key. (On the plus side that experience did demonstrate just how easy it was to break into my house).

MyRealNameToo

Aretnap said:
Unless you have a door that locks automatically of course but I wouldn't fancy having one of those again - I'm far to prone to stepping outside without a key. (On the plus side that experience did demonstrate just how easy it was to break into my house).

Always a silver lining. 

Had to break into a friends house, they dont live in the UK and there you have bars on the windows, a metal door in front of your normal door etc and they were very worried how easy it was to break the bars with stuff that was lying around the garden when they locked us out the house but inside the grounds. 

Aretnap said:

Exodi said:

Benjibontheta said:

i was in the house at the time, so the front door wasn’t locked.

How you've worded this has me now confused whether you're insane or I'm insane.

The word 'so' implies that it is natural that the door should be unlocked by virtue of you being in?

I keep the front door locked whether I'm in or out. Otherwise, it is uncomfortable to think about someone being able to walk in unnoticed because I happened to be in the garden or upstairs.

Do you sleep with the front door unlocked at night?

I'm my own case the front door is locked when I go out, and when I go to bed at night, but it wouldn't occur to me too lock it when I'm at home during the daytime. 

Obviously different people have different ways of looking at it, but in my own experience leaving it unlocked while your at home and up and about the house is fairly normal - and certainly not in any way extraordinary.

I think it's very variable depending on where you live and your age. Certainly it was never normal in my lifetime and we lived on the edge of a small city when growing up, but know people who think it is. Despite living in central London and what would be considered a busy street compared to where I grew up our neighbour often leaves their door unlocked and yet is one to frequently comment about parcels being stolen from the doorstep when couriers just leave them there in plain sight.