Octopus Smart Meter Comms - fact or fiction?

Qyburn

MWT said:

Because the data does not simply get pulled straight from the meter into the Octopus database.

It has to go from the meter to the DCC, from the DCC to the Adapter and from the Adapter to Octopus and then get processed into the individual records for each meter which is then added to 

Although DCC say they don't handle the actual data ..

"The DCC network never sees or keeps the data, it transports it securely straight to the energy supplier. They decrypt the data and use it to bill consumers accurately."

Qyburn

On consideration that "never sees" might mean it does pass through the DCC but only in encrypted form. I had been thinking it bypasses altogether, a bit like IP voice where signalling may be centralised but media pass directly between end points.

Bendo

debitcardmayhem said:

MWT said:

For clarity, Octopus retrieves 24 hours worth of half-hour data for each smart meter with half-hour data collection authorised.

They do issue more than one request each day for this data, but only to split up the comms load. 

All the data for a single meter is requested once each day.

You can see this in your own half-hour data on the portal.

Typically the requests are issued at the same time of day, just after 00:30 GMT for me, so I will usually see everything up to the half-hour period ending 00:30, or during BST, 01:30.

Others will see something different as there are also retrievals at just after 00:00 GMT, and their used to be one at 23:30GMT, but not sure if that is still the case. 

Where there is missing data, Octopus can issue retrieval requests during the day of course...

OK so if that is true , why don’t I get data on Octopus until after 1300 or later most days, fact or myth ? Can you show us where they actually state that. Personally I get data earlier than Octopus present to me using other apps, except the ones that rely on their api?

They have millions of meters to pull, they will be scattered through every minute of the day so some customers will be early in the morning some later afternoon. 

My own experience is if there is missing data in one of the pulls, their systems don't automatically identify it and attempt to fetch it next time but it simply stays missing unless you ask them to retry it.

MWT

Qyburn said:

On consideration that "never sees" might mean it does pass through the DCC but only in encrypted form. I had been thinking it bypasses altogether, a bit like IP voice where signalling may be centralised but media pass directly between end points.

Exactly, the DCC does not unpack the replies from the meters, they merely pass them on to the Adapter. 

They are a conduit, for requests and replies.

MWT

debitcardmayhem said:

MWT said:

debitcardmayhem said:

MWT said:

For clarity, Octopus retrieves 24 hours worth of half-hour data for each smart meter with half-hour data collection authorised.

They do issue more than one request each day for this data, but only to split up the comms load. 

All the data for a single meter is requested once each day.

You can see this in your own half-hour data on the portal.

Typically the requests are issued at the same time of day, just after 00:30 GMT for me, so I will usually see everything up to the half-hour period ending 00:30, or during BST, 01:30.

Others will see something different as there are also retrievals at just after 00:00 GMT, and their used to be one at 23:30GMT, but not sure if that is still the case. 

Where there is missing data, Octopus can issue retrieval requests during the day of course...

OK so if that is true , why don’t I get data on Octopus until after 1300 or later most days, fact or myth ? Can you show us where they actually state that. Personally I get data earlier than Octopus present to me using other apps, except the ones that rely on their api?

Because the data does not simply get pulled straight from the meter into the Octopus database.

It has to go from the meter to the DCC, from the DCC to the Adapter and from the Adapter to Octopus and then get processed into the individual records for each meter which is then added to the Octopus database.

This is not a simple end-to-end request customer by customer and meter by meter.

When you use one of the 'Other Suppliers' they are typically working with much smaller datasets than the millions that Octopus have to handle, and they also pull their data at different times of day.

Aah i see like this perhaps 😂😂 , I know how it works but it seems like they use the top photo

I fear you are greatly underestimating the complexity involved in issuing huge batches of requests to individual meters via two 3rd parties and processing the replies when they are eventually received. 

debitcardmayhem

MWT said:

debitcardmayhem said:

MWT said:

debitcardmayhem said:

MWT said:

For clarity, Octopus retrieves 24 hours worth of half-hour data for each smart meter with half-hour data collection authorised.

They do issue more than one request each day for this data, but only to split up the comms load. 

All the data for a single meter is requested once each day.

You can see this in your own half-hour data on the portal.

Typically the requests are issued at the same time of day, just after 00:30 GMT for me, so I will usually see everything up to the half-hour period ending 00:30, or during BST, 01:30.

Others will see something different as there are also retrievals at just after 00:00 GMT, and their used to be one at 23:30GMT, but not sure if that is still the case. 

Where there is missing data, Octopus can issue retrieval requests during the day of course...

OK so if that is true , why don’t I get data on Octopus until after 1300 or later most days, fact or myth ? Can you show us where they actually state that. Personally I get data earlier than Octopus present to me using other apps, except the ones that rely on their api?

Because the data does not simply get pulled straight from the meter into the Octopus database.

It has to go from the meter to the DCC, from the DCC to the Adapter and from the Adapter to Octopus and then get processed into the individual records for each meter which is then added to the Octopus database.

This is not a simple end-to-end request customer by customer and meter by meter.

When you use one of the 'Other Suppliers' they are typically working with much smaller datasets than the millions that Octopus have to handle, and they also pull their data at different times of day.

Aah i see like this perhaps 😂😂 , I know how it works but it seems like they use the top photo

I fear you are greatly underestimating the complexity involved in issuing huge batches of requests to individual meters via two 3rd parties and processing the replies when they are eventually received. 

I fear you may be right, thirty five years of working in I.T. including BSC,VTAM TCP/IP and I still don’t understand computers nor communications protocols 😎

Qyburn

debitcardmayhem said:

I fear you may be right, thirty five years of working in I.T. including BSC,VTAM TCP/IP and I still don’t understand computers nor communications protocols 😎

I've written software collecting data (ironically half hourly data) from remote outstations over unreliable networks. It's still beyond me why the smart meter system doesn't automatically retry failed requests. Or given that it doesn't, why Octopus doesn't do so unless a customer notices and phones in.

MWT

debitcardmayhem said:

MWT said:

debitcardmayhem said:

MWT said:

debitcardmayhem said:

MWT said:

For clarity, Octopus retrieves 24 hours worth of half-hour data for each smart meter with half-hour data collection authorised.

They do issue more than one request each day for this data, but only to split up the comms load. 

All the data for a single meter is requested once each day.

You can see this in your own half-hour data on the portal.

Typically the requests are issued at the same time of day, just after 00:30 GMT for me, so I will usually see everything up to the half-hour period ending 00:30, or during BST, 01:30.

Others will see something different as there are also retrievals at just after 00:00 GMT, and their used to be one at 23:30GMT, but not sure if that is still the case. 

Where there is missing data, Octopus can issue retrieval requests during the day of course...

OK so if that is true , why don’t I get data on Octopus until after 1300 or later most days, fact or myth ? Can you show us where they actually state that. Personally I get data earlier than Octopus present to me using other apps, except the ones that rely on their api?

Because the data does not simply get pulled straight from the meter into the Octopus database.

It has to go from the meter to the DCC, from the DCC to the Adapter and from the Adapter to Octopus and then get processed into the individual records for each meter which is then added to the Octopus database.

This is not a simple end-to-end request customer by customer and meter by meter.

When you use one of the 'Other Suppliers' they are typically working with much smaller datasets than the millions that Octopus have to handle, and they also pull their data at different times of day.

Aah i see like this perhaps 😂😂 , I know how it works but it seems like they use the top photo

I fear you are greatly underestimating the complexity involved in issuing huge batches of requests to individual meters via two 3rd parties and processing the replies when they are eventually received. 

I fear you may be right, thirty five years of working in I.T. including BSC,VTAM TCP/IP and I still don’t understand computers nor communications protocols 😎

If you'd spent the same time working with billing systems that had to depend on multiple 3rd parties to complete asynchronous data retrieval processes as I have, them it might become more obvious

Qyburn said:

debitcardmayhem said:

I fear you may be right, thirty five years of working in I.T. including BSC,VTAM TCP/IP and I still don’t understand computers nor communications protocols 😎

I've written software collecting data (ironically half hourly data) from remote outstations over unreliable networks. It's still beyond me why the smart meter system doesn't automatically retry failed requests. Or given that it doesn't, why Octopus doesn't do so unless a customer notices and phones in.

I do agree with you that there should be more automation on the billing side of things, it is a weakness in Kraken that is hard to understand as I was designing around those issues 20 years ago.

They do seem to have got better over the last couple of years as I do see missing data getting filled more often than not without any intervention from me, but it remains far from perfect.