Supplier will not accpet reurns of circuit boards

Wizzlon

I use a Champion milling machine supplied by Chester Machine Tools. When this failed I was advised that I needed to order a replacement controller board. I fitted this and it did not work. On contacting the company i was told to contact one of their engineers who suggested that it was not the circuit board but the motor at fault. On inspecting the motor, this does indeed appear to be the issue(broken brush). I then contacted the company to order a brush and arrange return of the controller, my position being that I had been incorrectly advised. I was told that they were not allowed under UK law to accept the return as it was an electronic component. There was no mention of this caveat on the proforma invoice I was sent and there is no mention in their published terms and conditions.  Are they correct in refusing the return?

Aylesbury_Duck

Was this a business purchase?

MyRealNameToo

Wizzlon said:

 I was told that they were not allowed under UK law to accept the return as it was an electronic component.

Always good for a giggle, ask them to clarify exactly which legislation they are referring to 

Wizzlon

No, this was a private purchase.

Grumpy_chap

Wizzlon said:

I use a Champion milling machine supplied by Chester Machine Tools. When this failed I was advised that I needed to order a replacement controller board. I fitted this and it did not work. On contacting the company i was told to contact one of their engineers who suggested that it was not the circuit board but the motor at fault. On inspecting the motor, this does indeed appear to be the issue(broken brush). I then contacted the company to order a brush and arrange return of the controller, my position being that I had been incorrectly advised. I was told that they were not allowed under UK law to accept the return as it was an electronic component. There was no mention of this caveat on the proforma invoice I was sent and there is no mention in their published terms and conditions.  Are they correct in refusing the return?

The reference to "not allowed under UK law" seems to be made up.  You ask them to clarify exactly which legislation applies.

Is this a business purchase?  If so, consumer rights do not apply.

Typical exemptions to right of return for consumer rights would be bespoke item, hygiene reasons, copyright (CDs etc).

You can also see why a manufacturer might not want to accept a return of the PCB.  Firstly, they have no way of knowing whether the board was "fried" during the installation / test, particularly if it needed soldering into place, or pins bent, or shorted somewhere because of greasy hands and poor handling, etc.  Lots of ways to invisibly damage a PCB.  Secondly (largely because of the "invisible damage" aspect), it would be easy for the unscrupulous to return the original failed board instead of the new board.

Wizzlon

Grumpy_chap said:

Wizzlon said:

I use a Champion milling machine supplied by Chester Machine Tools. When this failed I was advised that I needed to order a replacement controller board. I fitted this and it did not work. On contacting the company i was told to contact one of their engineers who suggested that it was not the circuit board but the motor at fault. On inspecting the motor, this does indeed appear to be the issue(broken brush). I then contacted the company to order a brush and arrange return of the controller, my position being that I had been incorrectly advised. I was told that they were not allowed under UK law to accept the return as it was an electronic component. There was no mention of this caveat on the proforma invoice I was sent and there is no mention in their published terms and conditions.  Are they correct in refusing the return?

The reference to "not allowed under UK law" seems to be made up.  You ask them to clarify exactly which legislation applies.

Is this a business purchase?  If so, consumer rights do not apply.

Typical exemptions to right of return for consumer rights would be bespoke item, hygiene reasons, copyright (CDs etc).

You can also see why a manufacturer might not want to accept a return of the PCB.  Firstly, they have no way of knowing whether the board was "fried" during the installation / test, particularly if it needed soldering into place, or pins bent, or shorted somewhere because of greasy hands and poor handling, etc.  Lots of ways to invisibly damage a PCB.  Secondly (largely because of the "invisible damage" aspect), it would be easy for the unscrupulous to return the original failed board instead of the new board.

Thanks for the input- it was a private purchase. Also, the board is a plug in rather than solder.  As you suggested, I will ask them to clarify what legislation they are workig with

Okell

Wizzlon said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Wizzlon said:

I use a Champion milling machine supplied by Chester Machine Tools. When this failed I was advised that I needed to order a replacement controller board. I fitted this and it did not work. On contacting the company i was told to contact one of their engineers who suggested that it was not the circuit board but the motor at fault. On inspecting the motor, this does indeed appear to be the issue(broken brush). I then contacted the company to order a brush and arrange return of the controller, my position being that I had been incorrectly advised. I was told that they were not allowed under UK law to accept the return as it was an electronic component. There was no mention of this caveat on the proforma invoice I was sent and there is no mention in their published terms and conditions.  Are they correct in refusing the return?

The reference to "not allowed under UK law" seems to be made up.  You ask them to clarify exactly which legislation applies.

Is this a business purchase?  If so, consumer rights do not apply.

Typical exemptions to right of return for consumer rights would be bespoke item, hygiene reasons, copyright (CDs etc).

You can also see why a manufacturer might not want to accept a return of the PCB.  Firstly, they have no way of knowing whether the board was "fried" during the installation / test, particularly if it needed soldering into place, or pins bent, or shorted somewhere because of greasy hands and poor handling, etc.  Lots of ways to invisibly damage a PCB.  Secondly (largely because of the "invisible damage" aspect), it would be easy for the unscrupulous to return the original failed board instead of the new board.

Thanks for the input- it was a private purchase. Also, the board is a plug in rather than solder.  As you suggested, I will ask them to clarify what legislation they are workig with

If it's these people you might want to point out to them that their T&Cs are not compliant with the law.

Terms & Conditions | Chester Machine Tools

1.  They seem to be unaware of the existence of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and keep referring to the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

2.  They also fail to mention your cancellation rights under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

3.  I suppose they are also in breach of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

m0bov

Its a criminal offence to mislead a consumer's rights. Might do well to remind them. How did you pay for it? What was the cost?

MyRealNameToo

Okell said:

Wizzlon said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Wizzlon said:

I use a Champion milling machine supplied by Chester Machine Tools. When this failed I was advised that I needed to order a replacement controller board. I fitted this and it did not work. On contacting the company i was told to contact one of their engineers who suggested that it was not the circuit board but the motor at fault. On inspecting the motor, this does indeed appear to be the issue(broken brush). I then contacted the company to order a brush and arrange return of the controller, my position being that I had been incorrectly advised. I was told that they were not allowed under UK law to accept the return as it was an electronic component. There was no mention of this caveat on the proforma invoice I was sent and there is no mention in their published terms and conditions.  Are they correct in refusing the return?

The reference to "not allowed under UK law" seems to be made up.  You ask them to clarify exactly which legislation applies.

Is this a business purchase?  If so, consumer rights do not apply.

Typical exemptions to right of return for consumer rights would be bespoke item, hygiene reasons, copyright (CDs etc).

You can also see why a manufacturer might not want to accept a return of the PCB.  Firstly, they have no way of knowing whether the board was "fried" during the installation / test, particularly if it needed soldering into place, or pins bent, or shorted somewhere because of greasy hands and poor handling, etc.  Lots of ways to invisibly damage a PCB.  Secondly (largely because of the "invisible damage" aspect), it would be easy for the unscrupulous to return the original failed board instead of the new board.

Thanks for the input- it was a private purchase. Also, the board is a plug in rather than solder.  As you suggested, I will ask them to clarify what legislation they are workig with

If it's these people you might want to point out to them that their T&Cs are not compliant with the law.

Terms & Conditions | Chester Machine Tools

1.  They seem to be unaware of the existence of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and keep referring to the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

2.  They also fail to mention your cancellation rights under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

3.  I suppose they are also in breach of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Remember that SoGA does still apply to B2B contracts. 

Looking at their website it seems they are setup for B2B, not sure how many people have CNC machines for hobbies etc. Similarly all prices are listed excluding VAT

user1977

Yes, I think all you're looking at are some B2B terms from an outlet which rarely deals with consumers.

Okell

MyRealNameToo said:

Okell said:

Wizzlon said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Wizzlon said:

I use a Champion milling machine supplied by Chester Machine Tools. When this failed I was advised that I needed to order a replacement controller board. I fitted this and it did not work. On contacting the company i was told to contact one of their engineers who suggested that it was not the circuit board but the motor at fault. On inspecting the motor, this does indeed appear to be the issue(broken brush). I then contacted the company to order a brush and arrange return of the controller, my position being that I had been incorrectly advised. I was told that they were not allowed under UK law to accept the return as it was an electronic component. There was no mention of this caveat on the proforma invoice I was sent and there is no mention in their published terms and conditions.  Are they correct in refusing the return?

The reference to "not allowed under UK law" seems to be made up.  You ask them to clarify exactly which legislation applies.

Is this a business purchase?  If so, consumer rights do not apply.

Typical exemptions to right of return for consumer rights would be bespoke item, hygiene reasons, copyright (CDs etc).

You can also see why a manufacturer might not want to accept a return of the PCB.  Firstly, they have no way of knowing whether the board was "fried" during the installation / test, particularly if it needed soldering into place, or pins bent, or shorted somewhere because of greasy hands and poor handling, etc.  Lots of ways to invisibly damage a PCB.  Secondly (largely because of the "invisible damage" aspect), it would be easy for the unscrupulous to return the original failed board instead of the new board.

Thanks for the input- it was a private purchase. Also, the board is a plug in rather than solder.  As you suggested, I will ask them to clarify what legislation they are workig with

If it's these people you might want to point out to them that their T&Cs are not compliant with the law.

Terms & Conditions | Chester Machine Tools

1.  They seem to be unaware of the existence of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and keep referring to the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

2.  They also fail to mention your cancellation rights under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

3.  I suppose they are also in breach of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Remember that SoGA does still apply to B2B contracts. 

Looking at their website it seems they are setup for B2B, not sure how many people have CNC machines for hobbies etc. Similarly all prices are listed excluding VAT

user1977 said:

Yes, I think all you're looking at are some B2B terms from an outlet which rarely deals with consumers.

Well this was my first thought too when I saw the reference to SOGA, but I couldn't find anything else on their website explicitly stating that they only dealt with trade or business customers.  (Apologies if I've missed that).

In any case, so long as:

(1) the OP meets the definition of a consumer* under s2(3) of the CRA, and

(2) he has not, if asked, misrepresented himself as a trade or business purchaser**,

then the CRA must apply - regardless of what Chester Machine Tools think.

If Chester Machine Tools don't want to be restricted by legislation protecting consumer rights, they want to ensure they aren't selling to consumers - and even then I'm not sure they could avoid the legislative provisions if they sell to purchasers who are genuine consumers.  It's the status of the purchaser that is important, not the seller's T&Cs.


*  s2(3)  “Consumer” means an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual's trade, business, craft or profession

**  I have no reason to suspect that the OP was not being truthful when he said this is not a business purchase.  But if that is not strictly true...