reporting business expenses as self employed on universal credit - working away from home.

Benjiboo444 · 27 July at 7:46PM

married couple, one 19yr old with disabilities, one 12yr old.

Does anyone have any advice on this? we were called for an appointment at the job center 3 weeks ago, JC employee said there was expenses listed on our monthly inc/exp that were not allowed. She said specifically that accommodation and meals are not allowed when wprking away from home over night. My husband is a crane operator, his work is not readily available within a commutable distance all of the time, as such he has to travel in order to work, hence paying for accommodation and evening meals when staying away from home. On their guidance for reporting income and expenses, hotels and meals are there as a reportable expense under the 'other business travel' section.

She insisted it is not allowed even when we drew her attention to this part of their own guidance, she went away to speak to colleagues and came back and said that its not allowed and we have misunderstood the guidance. When asked why it cant be documented as an outgoing, in line with their guidance she went away again, coming back to say 'well when your husbands arrives at whatever location he is working, that location is then his regular place of business as that is where he is completing his work, therefor you cant claim expenses at your regular place of work'. we explained that as a crane operator he does not have any regular place of work or a business premises, his business is registered at our home address and he then takes work anywhere in the UK where it is available, that its not a skilled trade as in electrician where you would ordinarily always have work available locally to home, its a specialist trade and you must travel for the work. That he could be on the South coast 1 day, then in Scotland the next for example, never at a single destination for any extended period of time, constantly traveling. That the accommodation and meals are essential as without paying for those he would be unable to work, that the costs are reasonable and always go for the most budget friendly option, that it is solely for business use.

She just continued to insist it is not allowed for UC purposes, only when completing HMRC returns. That he has chose to work away so we must take the full financial implication of that, and that maybe he should reassess his work choices!

She said she would provide confirmation of the costs we are not allowed to list with reasons why, that all statements back to March 23 (when MIF was added to account) will be put back on account as 'to-do's', that no further UC payments will be made until all statements have been re-submitted minus the accommodation and meal costs. That they will then be verified and generate us a 'sizeable overpayment' to owe them.

Since the appointment there has been no further contact from her and no actions or notes have went on the account as yet (3 weeks).

This seems to have came about as we asked for the MIF to be removed from my husband as he is my carer, earnings have been significantly lower etc. She said they will not remove the MIF until this has been resolved. Even though we have had several periods since December with £0 income but of course calculated using the MIF figure.

Nowhere seems to be able to advise me on the reporting of accommodation and meals as a cost. Sorry for the long post, hard to explain the situation otherwise. Any advice or pointing in right direction would be appreciated.

huckster · 27 July at 9:02PM

Agree that overnight accommodation and associated meal expenses are allowed as expenses as per the Gov.uk website. But they must be reasonable.
Business expenses you can report to Universal Credit if you are self-employed - GOV.UK

Other business travel

You can claim costs for business travel, including:

public transport, for example train or bus fares
taxi fares
air travel
hotel rooms
meals during overnight stays
parking, tolls and congestion fees
travel between home and the site, if you’re a sub-contractor who works at 2 or more sites during a year

You cannot claim costs for:

commuting (travel between your home and your normal place of business)
personal or non-business travel costs
penalties, such as parking fines

From Universal Credit Advice for Decision Makers
ADM Chapter H4: Earned income - self-employed earnings

H4210 Incurred unreasonably

The term “incurred unreasonably” is not defined in legislation.

It should be given its ordinary everyday meaning.

To be reasonably incurred an expense must be

1. appropriate to the business and
2. necessary to the business and 3. not excessive. The DM should consider the nature of the business, level of trading and if there are any employees.

H4211 To determine what is reasonable the DM should have regard to the circumstances of each individual’s case

1, including the level of the person’s earnings

H4212

If expenditure on a particular item is necessary to enable the person to run the business, the whole of that expenditure may be a deductible expense unless there is evidence that it is excessive.

So as long as the expenses incurred when being away from home on business are reasonably incurred and appropriate when considering income obtained from the work away from home, then they can be included as an expense.

If a self-employed person starts caring for someone in receipt of a disability benefit and the caring activity is verified, then the work group category of the person who has become a carer would change to 'No Work Related Requirements' and the MIF would be removed from the date the caring activity was verified from.

Suggest submitting a formal complaint using the DWP online complaints system aa the person dealing with your UC claim is not ensuring correct processes are followed and guidance applied.

Complaints procedure - Department for Work and Pensions - GOV.UK

born_again · 28 July at 8:13AM

Benjiboo444 said:

married couple, one 19yr old with disabilities, one 12yr old.

Does anyone have any advice on this? we were called for an appointment at the job center 3 weeks ago, JC employee said there was expenses listed on our monthly inc/exp that were not allowed. She said specifically that accommodation and meals are not allowed when wprking away from home over night. My husband is a crane operator, his work is not readily available within a commutable distance all of the time, as such he has to travel in order to work, hence paying for accommodation and evening meals when staying away from home. On their guidance for reporting income and expenses, hotels and meals are there as a reportable expense under the 'other business travel' section.

She insisted it is not allowed even when we drew her attention to this part of their own guidance, she went away to speak to colleagues and came back and said that its not allowed and we have misunderstood the guidance. When asked why it cant be documented as an outgoing, in line with their guidance she went away again, coming back to say 'well when your husbands arrives at whatever location he is working, that location is then his regular place of business as that is where he is completing his work, therefor you cant claim expenses at your regular place of work'. we explained that as a crane operator he does not have any regular place of work or a business premises, his business is registered at our home address and he then takes work anywhere in the UK where it is available, that its not a skilled trade as in electrician where you would ordinarily always have work available locally to home, its a specialist trade and you must travel for the work. That he could be on the South coast 1 day, then in Scotland the next for example, never at a single destination for any extended period of time, constantly traveling. That the accommodation and meals are essential as without paying for those he would be unable to work, that the costs are reasonable and always go for the most budget friendly option, that it is solely for business use.

She just continued to insist it is not allowed for UC purposes, only when completing HMRC returns. That he has chose to work away so we must take the full financial implication of that, and that maybe he should reassess his work choices!

She said she would provide confirmation of the costs we are not allowed to list with reasons why, that all statements back to March 23 (when MIF was added to account) will be put back on account as 'to-do's', that no further UC payments will be made until all statements have been re-submitted minus the accommodation and meal costs. That they will then be verified and generate us a 'sizeable overpayment' to owe them.

Since the appointment there has been no further contact from her and no actions or notes have went on the account as yet (3 weeks).

This seems to have came about as we asked for the MIF to be removed from my husband as he is my carer, earnings have been significantly lower etc. She said they will not remove the MIF until this has been resolved. Even though we have had several periods since December with £0 income but of course calculated using the MIF figure.

Nowhere seems to be able to advise me on the reporting of accommodation and meals as a cost. Sorry for the long post, hard to explain the situation otherwise. Any advice or pointing in right direction would be appreciated.

If husband is working away & claiming accommodation. How does this fit in with them caring for you?
Given you make no mention of disabilities or needing caring, only one 19yr old with disabilities.