£100/month penalty from property management company

eddddy

Friedbagel said:

As a result the managing agents stated ‘Failure to do so will result in a £100 penalty added to your service charge account, with £100 added each month thereafter until the required works are completed and proof provided.’

Managing Agents aren't allowed to charge 'penalties' - just like you or I aren't allowed to charge people penalties.

(Only official bodies, like police, councils etc, are allowed to charge 'penalties'.)



But the Managing Agent might be able to charge you for their reasonably incurred costs.

For example, if your failure to install a fire door by 20th August means that the Managing Agent incurs additional costs of £100, they might be able to re-charge those costs to you.

For example, if your delay means the Managing Agent has to come back to do an extra inspection and/or send you reminder letters - they might be able to charge you those costs.


So in your position, I might send an email to the managing agents that includes something like "My fire doors will be installed on or around <date>. Note that the law does not allow you to charge penalties." And see how they respond.

martindow

I don't think the OP has an automatic right to do their own thing.  It would be normal for everyone to go along with the managing agent's proposal.

For some reason the agent is allowing an exception, but can then offer this imposing their own terms as they wish including the payments of £100.  

If the OP starts quibbling about details, can the agent not then just withdraw the offer entirely and revert to the works as originally proposed?

grumpy_codger

martindow said:

I don't think the OP has an automatic right to do their own thing.  It would be normal for everyone to go along with the managing agent's proposal.

...

I do think that you are mistaken. 

martindow

grumpy_codger said:

martindow said:

I don't think the OP has an automatic right to do their own thing.  It would be normal for everyone to go along with the managing agent's proposal.

...

I do think that you are mistaken. 

Highly likely!  But when works are needed for a block of flats and the correct process has been gone through to obtain tenders, can individual tenants just opt out and say they will undertake work on their own flats?

It surprises me that the management company is allowing this at all.

Wonka_2

Given the OP is trying to sell it seems fairly short-sighted to be winding the Management Agents up - especially as they are aware of the sale position and have flagged the risks. 

@Friedbagel how much are you expecting to save by going it alone ? And is it worth it ? 

grumpy_codger

martindow said:

grumpy_codger said:

martindow said:

I don't think the OP has an automatic right to do their own thing.  It would be normal for everyone to go along with the managing agent's proposal.

...

I do think that you are mistaken. 

Highly likely!  But when works are needed for a block of flats and the correct process has been gone through to obtain tenders, can individual tenants just opt out and say they will undertake work on their own flats?

My friend was told that their personal external door needed replacing and quoted about £2.5K (?). He did have to satisfy some 'matching' requirements, but had it replaced by some other company for half of the above amount. I think for internal doors the only requirement is to be fireproof.

It surprises me that the management company is allowing this at all.

It would surprise me if they we allowed not to allow. As somebody said above, "The minute they say that you are not to contact their contractor you know that this stinks like a rotten fish". Even on a bigger scale tenders are often a joke.

eddddy

martindow said:

But when works are needed for a block of flats and the correct process has been gone through to obtain tenders, can individual tenants just opt out and say they will undertake work on their own flats?

It surprises me that the management company is allowing this at all.

I suspect the situation is as follows:

• Fire doors are required on all flats to meet fire regulations

• The leases say that the entrance door of each flat belongs to the leaseholder (flat owner)

• Therefore, the management company are not allowed to turn up at your flat and take away your entrance door and replace it with another one - because the door doesn't belong to the management company or freeholder

• So the management company are (very forcefully) asking each leaseholder to agree to the management company's contractor replacing their front door, at a cost of £2,800 (or whatever)

• But ultimately, the management company cannot force a leaseholder to agree to use the management company's chosen contractor

(It's a while since I looked at the regulations, but my recollection is that the leaseholder would be breaking the law if they don't install a fire door, but the management company is probably responsible for fire safety in the building. So there's a bit of an overlap of responsibility.)

bouicca21

I’m confused. Presumably the doors complied with the fire regulations operative when the flats were built.  What is the legal obligation to update them to comply with current regs?  And what authority do the management have to charge any kind of penalty for failure to comply, let alone comply by a certain date?

sheramber

bouicca21 said:

I’m confused. Presumably the doors complied with the fire regulations operative when the flats were built.  What is the legal obligation to update them to comply with current regs?  And what authority do the management have to charge any kind of penalty for failure to comply, let alone comply by a certain date?

Depends on when the original doors were fitted.
 

Building regs were tightened as a result of the Grenfell fire enquiry.

silvercar

sheramber said:

bouicca21 said:

I’m confused. Presumably the doors complied with the fire regulations operative when the flats were built.  What is the legal obligation to update them to comply with current regs?  And what authority do the management have to charge any kind of penalty for failure to comply, let alone comply by a certain date?

Depends on when the original doors were fitted.
 

Building regs were tightened as a result of the Grenfell fire enquiry.

Standard building regs aren't retrospective.

The Fire Safety (England) Regulations 2022 made changes as a result of the Grenfall Fire. Also, claims under the Defective Premises Act 1972 can now be brought retrospectively.