Fuse Energy - 4g smart meter question

bnabound

I just got an email from Fuse offering to get me a new 4g smart meter. I'm quite happy to do it but I wonder if anyone has any experience with these. Specifically, I have an in-house unit that I keep a tight eye on and that I don't want to lose. Does anyone know if the 4g smart meters come with an in-house unit? Or if not, whether in-house units compatible with my current, lesser "smart" meter would also work with the newer one?

Many thanks!

QrizB

The HAN should still run on ZigBee, so in principle your current one could still work if Fuse pair it. Or they might give you a new one.

But that's a big "if" and "might".

You'll have to ask Fuse.

Scot_39

You should probably get a new ihd to match the new meter, so make sure Fuse know you use yours and want one.

I've still got an old lcd monochrome ihd, for my smets1.

The 4g is the external to home comms to from your supplier, not the internal to home in-house display or gas meter if have one.

2g which 2g/3g models have reverted to, for meters is due to go 2033

https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/our-smart-network/do-smart-meters-use-3g/

Every home in the south / central area wiith a cellular smart meter will need a new 4g comms hub before then.

bnabound

Thank you both!

I have contacted Fuze to ask about the IHD and they said they will send me on if I request it, once the meter is installed. So I shall do just that  

bob2302

If switching to 4G also means immediately switching to Vodaphone (rather than at the end of O2's contract), it seems like an unnecessary risk for anyone relying on a working smart meter.

Scot_39

bob2302 said:

If switching to 4G also means immediately switching to Vodaphone (rather than at the end of O2's contract), it seems like an unnecessary risk for anyone relying on a working smart meter.

My vodafone signal was actually better around town then my new 02 is - same brand of phone - different model though.

Now that 4G have passed two - one minor, the other larger roll out trials - why fit a 2g/3g hub - knowing your going to have to come back before normal meter EOL to swap it for a 4G before 2033.

https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/news-events/network-evolution-enabling-4g-connectivity/

"The first 4G Communications Hubs are being installed from December 2024 to February 2025, with mass roll-out from summer 2025."

OR again from DCC site

https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/news-events/future-connectivity-4g-comms-hubs-installed-in-first-homes/

"Following a successful test, we’ll be rolling out 4G Communications Hubs as standard from summer 2025. Given that 2G/3G networks will be phased out by 2033, that gives us and our partners eight years to ensure connection continuity for around 24 million smart meters – a huge challenge, but one we are confident we will achieve.

So the OPs supplier appears strangely on time for UK smart meter rollout planning if not in a trial area.

Like the RTS roll out - that was a tiny fraction of total meters (Id say sub 5% of homes) - you probably really dont want to be waiting for the last minute for suppliers to mess up and delay the rollout to 29 m homes (or as it now turns out the 3-6 months after the last minute as people are still waiting now its a phased RTS shutdown.)

And the DCC have already set up a specific group to plan the roll out of 4G into the North - currently the Arqiva LRR WAN locations.  Where many more anecdotally at least struggle with LRR comms.

https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/media/ujflv1t5/fcn-consultation-on-regulatory-changes.pdf

And I have seen mention of a joint 4G / Arqiva LRR WAN hybrid comms hub in some posts here too (not to be confused with dual band HAN - but not sure if these have been trialed or rolled out yet)

bob2302

Scot_39 said:

bob2302 said:

If switching to 4G also means immediately switching to Vodaphone (rather than at the end of O2's contract), it seems like an unnecessary risk for anyone relying on a working smart meter.

My vodafone signal was actually better around town then my new 02 is - same brand of phone - different model though.

Now that 4G have passed two - one minor, the other larger roll out trials - why fit a 2g/3g hub - knowing your going to have to come back before normal meter EOL to swap it for a 4G before 2033.

https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/news-events/network-evolution-enabling-4g-connectivity/

My point is that if you have a working smart meter, switching to 4G carries a risk with no possible reward.

QrizB

bob2302 said:

Scot_39 said:

bob2302 said:

If switching to 4G also means immediately switching to Vodaphone (rather than at the end of O2's contract), it seems like an unnecessary risk for anyone relying on a working smart meter.

My vodafone signal was actually better around town then my new 02 is - same brand of phone - different model though.

Now that 4G have passed two - one minor, the other larger roll out trials - why fit a 2g/3g hub - knowing your going to have to come back before normal meter EOL to swap it for a 4G before 2033.

https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/news-events/network-evolution-enabling-4g-connectivity/

My point is that if you have a working smart meter, switching to 4G carries a risk with no possible reward.

That's true for now, yes.

Smart meters seem to have a 10-year certified life, so the smart meter installers need to be staffed sufficiently to replace ~3M meters a year.

If they start fitting 4G comms hubs this year, mid-2025, natural replacement (10% a year) means that there will still be 20-30% of meters with 2G comms by 2033 when the system starts to be switched off.

bob2302

QrizB said:

bob2302 said:

My point is that if you have a working smart meter, switching to 4G carries a risk with no possible reward.

That's true for now, yes.

Smart meters seem to have a 10-year certified life, so the smart meter installers need to be staffed sufficiently to replace ~3M meters a year.

If they start fitting 4G comms hubs this year, mid-2025, natural replacement (10% a year) means that there will still be 20-30% of meters with 2G comms by 2033 when the system starts to be switched off.

You seem to be saying that they have an 8 year deadline and planning around a 10 year deadline. 

stripling

bnabound said:

Thank you both!

I have contacted Fuze to ask about the IHD and they said they will send me on if I request it, once the meter is installed. So I shall do just that  

Once you have a smart meter the Fuse app is basic but good for live monitoring of your energy use - hourly/daily/weekly/monthly/yearly. You can also do all your communications there. I'm quite pleased with Fuse. 

Scot_39

bob2302 said:

QrizB said:

bob2302 said:

My point is that if you have a working smart meter, switching to 4G carries a risk with no possible reward.

That's true for now, yes.

Smart meters seem to have a 10-year certified life, so the smart meter installers need to be staffed sufficiently to replace ~3M meters a year.

If they start fitting 4G comms hubs this year, mid-2025, natural replacement (10% a year) means that there will still be 20-30% of meters with 2G comms by 2033 when the system starts to be switched off.

You seem to be saying that they have an 8 year deadline and planning around a 10 year deadline. 

No, their will when rollout complete be c31m domestic and small business smart electric so comms hubs.

There are far fewer existing hubs, and strictly at thr momement even less 2g/3g cellular comms hubs as the UK is split north Arqive LRR comms and South Cellular.

And as of my last read of DCC on North  4G roll out, that was as of spring still pending regulations / permissions.


And last figure I read only about 70% with smart meters iirc installed.

So fewer existing 2g/3g to replace, even if include argiva lrr to 4g once approved (it might already be)

The original target for smart rollout completion was 2019/20 iirc, it was at one stage meant to be 2025, this year.  And will miss that.

But I believe that has been reduced to 75% coverage, but the current focus on rts replacement might see that met and even exceeded as over 1m complex electric meters tackled.
Although even that has now slipped twice.

UK modern day organisational / political ineptitude at its finest. Set an impractical target, one where technology not well enough proven or even defined properly, choose the stupidest way possible of achieving it by leaving it up to suppliers, dont make it mandatory, so Ofgem and suppliers take the blame, and then cave in with extensions when it doesn't happen.

Germany past there mandatory smart meter law in 2023.  It starts iirc with a fairly conservative c20% target this year, with 95% 2-3years later.  UK will be lucky if gets their by 27/28 - over a decade after it began smets2 rollout, let alone smets1 before it.

Not helped in UK by the decision to allow suppliers to persevere, to roll out an estimated extra 7.1 million more smets1 from nao report c2018-  link below) with bespoke supplier comms that as NAO figures showed nearly 1m had gone dumb by mid 2018 as people switched suppliers - as smets2 release ran 3 years behind original development plans.

https://www.nao.org.uk/press-releases/rolling-out-smart-meters/