Gov launching pension age review

BlackKnightMonty

kimwp said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

I have little empathy or sympathy for pensioners solely reliant on the SP. If they have other assets they can sell these to raise retirement funds.

As to raising to 68, well it’s only another year eh. Might as well make it 70, or 72 even, and if we are doing that just whack it up to 75.

The trend of reduced empathy with increase of wealth is a survival mechanism. 

If you didn't have much food, it made sense to group together to acquire food. If you have a big pile of food when others don't, survival is best achieved by not giving your food away, therefore empathy for those that are starving reduces. 

 Wealthy pensioners could share it with others? Or even just take less.

I agree !

Ebeneezer9

BlackKnightMonty said:

kimwp said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

I have little empathy or sympathy for pensioners solely reliant on the SP. If they have other assets they can sell these to raise retirement funds.

As to raising to 68, well it’s only another year eh. Might as well make it 70, or 72 even, and if we are doing that just whack it up to 75.

The trend of reduced empathy with increase of wealth is a survival mechanism. 

If you didn't have much food, it made sense to group together to acquire food. If you have a big pile of food when others don't, survival is best achieved by not giving your food away, therefore empathy for those that are starving reduces. 

 Wealthy pensioners could share it with others? Or even just take less.

I agree !

Soon to be wealthy pensioner here, I can’t wait to draw my maximum SP plus healthy DB and have no intention of giving any away or taking less.  I will be happy to pay tax on my pension and savings for the privilege of living in this wonderful country.

BrilliantButScary

BlackKnightMonty said:

kimwp said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

I have little empathy or sympathy for pensioners solely reliant on the SP. If they have other assets they can sell these to raise retirement funds.

As to raising to 68, well it’s only another year eh. Might as well make it 70, or 72 even, and if we are doing that just whack it up to 75.

The trend of reduced empathy with increase of wealth is a survival mechanism. 

If you didn't have much food, it made sense to group together to acquire food. If you have a big pile of food when others don't, survival is best achieved by not giving your food away, therefore empathy for those that are starving reduces. 

 Wealthy pensioners could share it with others? Or even just take less.

I agree !

How do you define a 'wealthy pensioner'? 

BlackKnightMonty

BrilliantButScary said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

kimwp said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

I have little empathy or sympathy for pensioners solely reliant on the SP. If they have other assets they can sell these to raise retirement funds.

As to raising to 68, well it’s only another year eh. Might as well make it 70, or 72 even, and if we are doing that just whack it up to 75.

The trend of reduced empathy with increase of wealth is a survival mechanism. 

If you didn't have much food, it made sense to group together to acquire food. If you have a big pile of food when others don't, survival is best achieved by not giving your food away, therefore empathy for those that are starving reduces. 

 Wealthy pensioners could share it with others? Or even just take less.

I agree !

How do you define a 'wealthy pensioner'? 

Well over a quarter of pensioners are now millionaires. I’m happy to use that metric.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/news/number-millionaire-pensioners-quadruples/

Cobbler_tone

Can't add to a lot to the "I'm alright Jack"/"I'm not alright Jack" commentary. 

I always like to look at how our IC/NI is spent though, which everyone can see in their government gateway account.
The state pension has fluctuated across the previous 4 tax years. 2022/23 it dropped down to 10.3% and 2023/24 is the highest (below), 2024/25 hasn't appeared yet but the trend across the 4 years hasn't always been an increase. Health has also been above welfare for 3 of the 4 years.

SouthCoastBoy

I think this is household wealth and includes property and dc pot if one exists, considering house prices in the south east and population density in the south east it is hardly surprising, especially when adding in dc pots.

It's not necessarily the same as having large amounts of disposable income.

The_Green_Hornet

BrilliantButScary said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

kimwp said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

I have little empathy or sympathy for pensioners solely reliant on the SP. If they have other assets they can sell these to raise retirement funds.

As to raising to 68, well it’s only another year eh. Might as well make it 70, or 72 even, and if we are doing that just whack it up to 75.

The trend of reduced empathy with increase of wealth is a survival mechanism. 

If you didn't have much food, it made sense to group together to acquire food. If you have a big pile of food when others don't, survival is best achieved by not giving your food away, therefore empathy for those that are starving reduces. 

 Wealthy pensioners could share it with others? Or even just take less.

I agree !

How do you define a 'wealthy pensioner'? 

The government recently defined it as someone who has taxable income above £35k.

Silvertabby

SouthCoastBoy said:

I think this is household wealth and includes property and dc pot if one exists, considering house prices in the south east and population density in the south east it is hardly surprising, especially when adding in dc pots.

It's not necessarily the same as having large amounts of disposable income.

It also includes the notional value of DB pensions (annual pension X 25).  

Neither of us are higher rate taxpayers (another loose definition of 'wealthy') but if my mum and dad were still alive today they would see us as being rich beyond their wildest dreams.

BlackKnightMonty

SouthCoastBoy said:

I think this is household wealth and includes property and dc pot if one exists, considering house prices in the south east and population density in the south east it is hardly surprising, especially when adding in dc pots.

It's not necessarily the same as having large amounts of disposable income.

Any money tied up in housing can be liberated with a lifetime mortgage. The money can be used for adult social care, it could even be used instead of claiming a state pension.

https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/homes/buying-a-home/lifetime-mortgage

Exodi

I would remind that over 2/3rds of forum-goers are 50+ and nearly half are retired.

I think having an unbiased discussion on potential state pension reform, or scrapping of the triple lock is optimistic (but to give credit where it's due, most of the views are relatively grounded).

SouthCoastBoy said:
The triple lock is not just for the current recipients, it is for future recipients as well.

This is such a common response I see and frankly it boils my blood - mainly because I think a lot of the people that parrot it either do so naively or disingenuously. 

There was an article the IFS published a couple of years ago that stated that 38% of people believe the SP will increase by less than inflation in the next decade, and one third of respondents do not believe the state pension will exist in 30 years time. Some could say these are extreme views, but clearly it's not that uncommon of a view.

You can imagine the annoyance it will cause to someone anticipating that they might not receive a state pension to be told that they should gleefully continue subsidising the current bonanza triple lock increases because the party will definitely last forever.

The triple lock is inherently unsustainable in the long term, everyone knows this. At some point in the future, the mechanics of the state pension/triple lock have to be adjusted - whether that's changing to a double lock or linking to inflation, properly means testing the state pension, increasing SP age to infinity, etc. Every politic party would love to make the changes needed,  but they know it is political suicide to do so (pensioners turn out to vote and are very vocal - see recent pandemonium on WFP). 

The question is what and when - not if, and that's why this view particularly frustrates me, because you either know this (and want to deceive younger working people to maintain the status quo that they are unlikely to receive themselves) or you live in Utopia where you believe above inflation/earnings increases can continue ad infinitum.

Personally, as someone in my thirties, my retirement planning does not include the State Pension. Not because I think it will be scrapped in its entirety (I very much doubt that), but because I think it's best to plan for the worst and hope for the best. 

I'm just glad this thread hasn't devolved (yet) into vague notions of 'worked hard' and having 'paid in my whole life'.

FWIW this issue is playing out all across the world (it's particularly bad in countries like South Korea or Japan where birth rates are particularly low, the ratio of workers to pensioners is now incredibly bleak and set to continue worsening).