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Small claims with trader! (don't call me Stupid!)

135

Comments

  • born_again
    born_again Posts: 20,762 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Sixth Anniversary Name Dropper
    Just to say I had an issue using someone theough checkatrade. Though looking on somewhere like that would be good for work on our gutters. Contacted the person advertising who then sent someone else nothing to do with his company and later said he was winding up the business. Made out he was doing us a favour when I found out he didn't work for him and then the person did a bad job, I left a bad review and then they hassled me to remove it which I wouldn't do until they repaired the work. It sort of got sorted but work was very poor.
    I would love to know how to find reputable tradespeople, they must be out there.
    Checkatrade was also very unhelpful and rude when I complained too.

    Local facebook groups are pretty good, as well as asking people round where you live.
    Life in the slow lane
  • sheramber
    sheramber Posts: 22,780 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts I've been Money Tipped! Name Dropper
    Local recommendations are best but you still need to do your own research.

    people will recommend themselves or their friends. 

    Check out the Facebook for examples, if they have one.  Check reviews on Facebook. 

    Don’t pay until you are happy with work. 

    If paying for materials do so once they have been delivered to you. 


  • Bobby2021
    Bobby2021 Posts: 18 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    To answer your questions:

    • How should I begin the Small Claims Court process?  With a letter before action, but it's crucial that you send it to the correct address and that it's the address of the business entity you entered into a contract with.

    • I suppose I need to include trader and daughter in the dispute?  Leave the daughter out of it.  Your contract is with the trader.  He owes you money, it doesn't matter where that money comes from.
    • What evidence will I need to provide?  Everything you've told us, backed by any documentation, bank statements, text messages, etc. you have.

    • Should I file a formal complaint with MyBuilder and Checkatrade?  If you like.  I suppose it might exert some leverage on the trader, but if he is a conman then I suspect it will be pointless.

    • Can the video footage of them removing the materials be used as evidence in court?  I don't know, but noting in your submission that you have the video evidence would be sensible.

    • Should the so-called tree surgeon be included in the claim?  No.  Again, you paid the trader for everything, so your claim is against him.

    - I raise case with thes trade site
    - They given me addrees of the company in question apart from that I have other addresses  linked individuals
    - I send message via the trader platform asking them to refund money, should I also send a letter to the address in question??
    - Yes, I have all documents needed

  • Bobby2021
    Bobby2021 Posts: 18 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    Ergates said:
    Could report him to HMRC too for tax avoidance:  Report tax fraud or avoidance to HMRC - GOV.UK

    Having you pay money into an account not in his name is a massive red flag - they can look into it.

    On paper Yes, but HMRC do they really do anything..? I doubt.
  • Bobby2021
    Bobby2021 Posts: 18 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    saajan_12 said:
    Bobby2021 said:

    The job is now incomplete. I have paid significantly more than originally agreed, and the materials I paid for have been taken away.

    I reported the matter to the police, but they informed me it was a civil issue. I also contacted my bank, but they declined to take action, saying that since some patio cleaning work had been done, it does not constitute fraud.

    It now appears that my only viable option is to pursue the trader through the Small Claims Court.

    Have you contacted the trader to get them to complete the job? If not, then I'd do that even if just for the paper trail. Ultimately your claim is now that the materials / job is incomplete and the jet washer is damaged. The other stuff about using your elec and paying more than intended is moot since you did agree and you expected them to use your power. The bank is right its not fraud so not their responsibility, else they would be insurers for every consumer contract in the world. 

    Bobby2021 said:

    Questions:

    • How should I begin the Small Claims Court process? 

    Start with a letter before action to the trader, asking for the amount owed within x days, to avoid court and related fees. Then look into whether you have a reliable address for the trader and whether he has assets - if not then it might be pointless getting a win in court. 

    Bobby2021 said:

    • I suppose I need to include trader and daughter in the dispute? 
    • Should the so-called tree surgeon be included in the claim?


    Not the daughter. Its irrelevant (for this purpose) what name was on the account, you contracted with the trader and paid into the bank details he provided. 

    No harm in including the tree surgeon jointly, as a backup in case the trader says he was just an agent and you actually contracted with the tree guy for that portion. Not essential though. 

    Bobby2021 said:
    • What evidence will I need to provide? 

    • Can the video footage of them removing the materials be used as evidence in court
    (a) proof of what the contract was and scope of work
    (b) proof of the payments made
    (c) proof of materials left (or not) and proof of work done (or not)
    (d) proof of your efforts to settle outside court (eg asking him to return materials and to complete work, letter before action)
    (e) proof of cost to complete job with another trader

    Video footage can go to (c)
    Bobby2021 said:

    • Can you help me prepare a timeline summary, a complaint letter, or a court claim statement?

    Have a go and I or others will be happy to review. The jist of the first step (LBA) is to say we had contracted for <work> and paid £X to date. Unfortunately this work was not completed despite contacting you (trader) to return on <date> and <date>. As such, you will need to get the work completed and materials resupplied due to being taken away, at a cost of £Y extra. After deducting the remaining payments, I will incur costs of £Z to correct and complete the job. Then ask the trader to pay that amount in 14 days. If not you will have to pursue via courts, incurring court costs which will be added to the claim. 

    I send message via the trader platform to refund the money. Another email is better? Or should I send a letter via post? Is that make any difference..?
  • Bobby2021
    Bobby2021 Posts: 18 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    saajan_12 said:
    Bobby2021 said:

    The job is now incomplete. I have paid significantly more than originally agreed, and the materials I paid for have been taken away.

    I reported the matter to the police, but they informed me it was a civil issue. I also contacted my bank, but they declined to take action, saying that since some patio cleaning work had been done, it does not constitute fraud.

    It now appears that my only viable option is to pursue the trader through the Small Claims Court.

    Have you contacted the trader to get them to complete the job? If not, then I'd do that even if just for the paper trail. Ultimately your claim is now that the materials / job is incomplete and the jet washer is damaged. The other stuff about using your elec and paying more than intended is moot since you did agree and you expected them to use your power. The bank is right its not fraud so not their responsibility, else they would be insurers for every consumer contract in the world. 

    Bobby2021 said:

    Questions:

    • How should I begin the Small Claims Court process? 

    Start with a letter before action to the trader, asking for the amount owed within x days, to avoid court and related fees. Then look into whether you have a reliable address for the trader and whether he has assets - if not then it might be pointless getting a win in court. 

    Bobby2021 said:

    • I suppose I need to include trader and daughter in the dispute? 
    • Should the so-called tree surgeon be included in the claim?


    Not the daughter. Its irrelevant (for this purpose) what name was on the account, you contracted with the trader and paid into the bank details he provided. 

    No harm in including the tree surgeon jointly, as a backup in case the trader says he was just an agent and you actually contracted with the tree guy for that portion. Not essential though. 

    Bobby2021 said:
    • What evidence will I need to provide? 

    • Can the video footage of them removing the materials be used as evidence in court
    (a) proof of what the contract was and scope of work
    (b) proof of the payments made
    (c) proof of materials left (or not) and proof of work done (or not)
    (d) proof of your efforts to settle outside court (eg asking him to return materials and to complete work, letter before action)
    (e) proof of cost to complete job with another trader

    Video footage can go to (c)
    Bobby2021 said:

    • Can you help me prepare a timeline summary, a complaint letter, or a court claim statement?

    Have a go and I or others will be happy to review. The jist of the first step (LBA) is to say we had contracted for <work> and paid £X to date. Unfortunately this work was not completed despite contacting you (trader) to return on <date> and <date>. As such, you will need to get the work completed and materials resupplied due to being taken away, at a cost of £Y extra. After deducting the remaining payments, I will incur costs of £Z to correct and complete the job. Then ask the trader to pay that amount in 14 days. If not you will have to pursue via courts, incurring court costs which will be added to the claim. 

    The trader has already removed all the materials from the site. He clearly does not have the skills to carry out this job, and I have no intention of asking him to return and complete the work.

    Everyone keeps suggesting I send a letter. I’ve already sent messages via the trader platform. Do I also need to send a physical letter, or would repeating the same information via email be sufficient? Sending a letter through Royal Mail doesn’t offer much proof unless it’s sent with a Certificate of Posting or tracked delivery.

    I have managed to gather multiple addresses linked to the trader, his daughter, and his company.

    As for the evidence I have collected:

    (a) Proof of what the contract and scope of work were – Yes
    (b) Proof of payments made – Yes
    (c) Proof of whether materials were left behind and the extent of work done – Yes
    (d) Proof of my efforts to resolve the matter outside of court, including messages requesting return of materials and completion of work, and a formal 'letter before action' – Yes
    (e) Proof of the cost to complete the job with another trader – Yes



  • Bobby2021
    Bobby2021 Posts: 18 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    eskbanker said:
    Just to check, is the contract with an individual acting as a sole trader, or a limited company?

    It is shown as company in trader sites.but I am yet to see any company with that name or any director in Companies house records. So there a trade name in trade sites, but no Ltd company! I suppose this is the job of trade websites to validate if the trader is ltd company or not..? 
  • user1977
    user1977 Posts: 18,031 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Seventh Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    Bobby2021 said:
    saajan_12 said:
    Bobby2021 said:

    The job is now incomplete. I have paid significantly more than originally agreed, and the materials I paid for have been taken away.

    I reported the matter to the police, but they informed me it was a civil issue. I also contacted my bank, but they declined to take action, saying that since some patio cleaning work had been done, it does not constitute fraud.

    It now appears that my only viable option is to pursue the trader through the Small Claims Court.

    Have you contacted the trader to get them to complete the job? If not, then I'd do that even if just for the paper trail. Ultimately your claim is now that the materials / job is incomplete and the jet washer is damaged. The other stuff about using your elec and paying more than intended is moot since you did agree and you expected them to use your power. The bank is right its not fraud so not their responsibility, else they would be insurers for every consumer contract in the world. 

    Bobby2021 said:

    Questions:

    • How should I begin the Small Claims Court process? 

    Start with a letter before action to the trader, asking for the amount owed within x days, to avoid court and related fees. Then look into whether you have a reliable address for the trader and whether he has assets - if not then it might be pointless getting a win in court. 

    Bobby2021 said:

    • I suppose I need to include trader and daughter in the dispute? 
    • Should the so-called tree surgeon be included in the claim?


    Not the daughter. Its irrelevant (for this purpose) what name was on the account, you contracted with the trader and paid into the bank details he provided. 

    No harm in including the tree surgeon jointly, as a backup in case the trader says he was just an agent and you actually contracted with the tree guy for that portion. Not essential though. 

    Bobby2021 said:
    • What evidence will I need to provide? 

    • Can the video footage of them removing the materials be used as evidence in court
    (a) proof of what the contract was and scope of work
    (b) proof of the payments made
    (c) proof of materials left (or not) and proof of work done (or not)
    (d) proof of your efforts to settle outside court (eg asking him to return materials and to complete work, letter before action)
    (e) proof of cost to complete job with another trader

    Video footage can go to (c)
    Bobby2021 said:

    • Can you help me prepare a timeline summary, a complaint letter, or a court claim statement?

    Have a go and I or others will be happy to review. The jist of the first step (LBA) is to say we had contracted for <work> and paid £X to date. Unfortunately this work was not completed despite contacting you (trader) to return on <date> and <date>. As such, you will need to get the work completed and materials resupplied due to being taken away, at a cost of £Y extra. After deducting the remaining payments, I will incur costs of £Z to correct and complete the job. Then ask the trader to pay that amount in 14 days. If not you will have to pursue via courts, incurring court costs which will be added to the claim. 

    Everyone keeps suggesting I send a letter. I’ve already sent messages via the trader platform. Do I also need to send a physical letter, or would repeating the same information via email be sufficient? Sending a letter through Royal Mail doesn’t offer much proof unless it’s sent with a Certificate of Posting or tracked delivery.

    So either of those will be better than just sending an email. That's why people are suggesting you send a letter.
  • born_again
    born_again Posts: 20,762 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Sixth Anniversary Name Dropper
    Rather than via trader platform, where you have no idea if they are getting to the person. Send direct given you say you have their address.
    You can then just send letter before action & take to court if no refund.
    Life in the slow lane
  • sheramber
    sheramber Posts: 22,780 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts I've been Money Tipped! Name Dropper
    Bobby2021 said:
    eskbanker said:
    Just to check, is the contract with an individual acting as a sole trader, or a limited company?

    It is shown as company in trader sites.but I am yet to see any company with that name or any director in Companies house records. So there a trade name in trade sites, but no Ltd company! I suppose this is the job of trade websites to validate if the trader is ltd company or not..? 
    Does the company name have Ltd  after it?

    A sole trader or partnership can trade under a business name but that is not the same as a ‘company’. 
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