Power of attorney and family

Skye333

5 years ago, My husband and I moved in with My Mum and Dad because he had Alzheimer’s disease and my Mum couldn’t cope as she had severe mobility issues

Mum and Dad had power of attorney for each other, my sister and I had power of attorney for both of them

When we first moved in my Dad had some capacity and agreed to us moving in and that I would receive money for caring for them, I gave up my job and couldn’t expect my husband to accept loss of my income to care for them 

My Dad deteriorated until he was getting violent towards Mum so he went to a care home when he was violent towards the residents, he was then sectioned which means he didn’t have to pay for his care, sadly he passed away this year

In the meantime I dealt with mums finances, she has capacity but dealing with accounts etc causes her distress, she had a joint account with Dad from which we paid money into my mums single account and she paid me money out of that for her care. However my sister objected she said she had power of attorney over Dad and therefore the money should be used for his best interests and not for Mums care or her spending. The problem with this was my Mums only income was £180pm private pension attendance allowance and state pension of about £370 a month so she could not of stayed in her home or pay for care, whoever was providing it, if she didn’t use Dads money. She basically accused us of spending his money and she as power of attorney had rights to check Mums spending and what she 

RAS

It would really help if you kept your family issues into one thread, as it makes it hard to provide good responses.

What assets did/do your parents own other than the house? How was the house held, tenants in common based on your other thread.

Did dad have a will? Very likely if the tenancy been severed.

If so, what did it say and who are the executors? Because that dictates what needs to happen next. There may be an Immediate Post Death Interest Trust in there in which case that dictates how dad's half of the property is managed.

And the discussions between yourself and your sister are completely irrelevant. 

Has the executor registered any trust with the HMRC? If not, the estate could be charged for late registration.

Did anyone apply for probate or administration when dad died (may or may not be necessary)?

Mum's got a decent income and can fund care, by you or privately. If she's still compos mentis, then neither you or your sister can do anything with her consent at minimum, and best she dictates what happens when.

Given your other issues, now mum's got a decent income, it might be well to get yourself back into paid employment and sort out your own mortgage, not least as you'll not pay tax up to the allowance limit, whilst everything extra your husband gets is subject to deductions.

Given you dad is now dead, it's not your duty to preserve his assets, nor was it during his life. As attorneys your responsibility was to make sure he had the best life possible given his diagnosis. It is now the responsibility of his executor(s) to deal with his will as he required.

Brie

Legally? I don't know for sure.  But I do know that it is accepted by local authority financial reviews where someone has gone in to care that whatever income they have is in part due to their spouse as that keeps the spouse at home and out of care as well.  Also while it might have been dad's income going into the joint account officially that can be acknowledged as being split 50/50 as the account is joint between mom and dad.  

Personally I would ensure that you keep good accounts of money in and out.  When MiL lived with us I set up a spreadsheet where I totted up what council tax was, utility bills, all the basics and split that 3 ways to show what was my OH's and my responsibility and what was MiL's.  I added to that how much was generally spent for her food (she ate very simple ready meals as they were easy for her to manage/chew, we preferred other things), how much was her sherry (1 glass every evening before supper!), etc  The total of that was transferred by standing order from her account to ours each month so it was very transparent.  

Now that dad has gone there is no POA for him and no money of his.  It's your mom's.  It's not his pension it's the widow's portion that the pension he once received pays to her now he has died.  So for the last 5 years your sister should have nothing to complain about.  That doesn't mean she won't stop complaining of course.  Legally though?  Is she will to spend her money on a solicitor who is going to take a big chunk of her money and likely your mom's?  The only people that win battles like that are the solicitors.

Brie

Presumably you are getting carer's allowance?  If not please do that as a priority as that will not only give you a small amount of ££ each week but ensure you are being credited for your state pension.

Check out the prices of the local care homes, the nice ones that you'd like your mom to be in rather than the ones that the local authority might choose for her.  This is working on the assumption that you were not available to help.  Also find out how much it would cost to get someone in daily to do the things you do for her - a simple quote from a couple of local agencies will give you a good idea.  Let your sister know that what your mom is paying you is less than what mom would have to pay elsewhere.  That might cool sister's jets just a bit.  

RAS

It was relevant. Were they tenants in common from when they first the property? It's common to use that to protect at least half the property from care fees, amongst other things.

Who were the executors?

Brie

Oh and I suggest you and your OH go on holiday and you tell sister that it's up to her to tend to mom while you are away.  Just so she understands that it's not an easy job and that you couldn't be doing it properly and working at the same time.  

swingaloo

I understand you are caring for your mum but do you and your husband pay rent to your mum. 

My brother and his wife moved into my dads to care for him and my sister in law was taking £450 a week for caring whilst living rent and bill free at dads. It caused huge problems amongst siblings.

RAS

This is why the other threads help,  From last July

Skye333 said:

We own a house which our 2 sons are living in 

its worth 500k with a mortgage of 280k on it, mortgage is interest only 

We have outstanding debts but a good income, however the money we get from our sons is way below what the house costs us, we are thinking of selling and downsizing as I’m 60 and husband 59 and possibly buy a flat to rent out with a mortgage of £120k

RAS

I'd suggest that mum needs a full care assessment, as to whether she needs full-time care, or not.

Obviously mum is completely within her rights to employ who she wants to provide her care and that comes with employer's responsibilities.

But whilst mum is compos mentis neither daughter should be making decisions about mum's needs.

Voyager2002

Skye333 said:

However I feel worried that we would be in trouble because we used Dad’s money to look after Mum and keep the house an an asset, could I be in trouble if my sister keeps up her bullying about this? We feel we acted in Dads interest by keeping Dad and Mums asset, a home worth £500k how do we stand legally?

It doesn't help to talk about your sister's "bullying". She is legally obliged to raise the question, which is legitimate.

The answer is, the money in a joint account belongs to both account-holders: part of it should be used in the best interests of your father, while part of it is your mother's property and can legitimately be used to pay for her care. You should be able to work together with your sister to find a reasonable solution.

RAS

Brie said:

Oh and I suggest you and your OH go on holiday and you tell sister that it's up to her to tend to mom while you are away.  Just so she understands that it's not an easy job and that you couldn't be doing it properly and working at the same time.  

I'd still suggest that you ask your sister to come and care for your mother whilst you are on holiday. If only so that she understands what is required.

And if the two you aren't seeing eye to eye even more reason to make time for this when you are away. 

Obviously you need to give plenty of notice, and if you arrange dates without discussion accept "that not this time" is a reasonable response. And try to discuss dates in advance next time.