Permitted development-extension

Naturelover22

Hi,
We are planning a 1 storey rear extension on our mid terrace house. We ideally want it to be 4 metres from the rear wall of current house.

I have been researching permitted development and the reputable sources (planning portal and gov guide to permitted development) refer to two categories for a terraced house, my interpretation below.
I am sure our house is not on article 2(3) land nor on a site of special scientific interest.
1. Up to 3 metres from rear wall=permitted development.
2. 3 to 6 metres from rear wall= larger single storey extension requires a neighbour consultation to be carried out.
3. 6 metres plus=planning permission.

I cannot find anything further about what the neighbour consultation would be or the guidelines for a project in this category from official sources.
I have enquired with local planning once on the phone with an admin person and once in writing as a pre planning enquiry and they say it would need planning permission as it is more than 3 metres from the rear wall. No mention of this 3 to 6 metres category.
What is this middle level permitted development I have read about or is this not in place anymore? Does anyone know what the gov guide is referring to if it is not full planning permission?

We are on a tight budget so I want to ensure we get the appropriate size plans and details drawn up without toing and froing about the size.
The architect has already advised to get a Lawful Planning Certificate before the build starts which is from local planning department anyway. They also say it appears to fall within permitted development but to always consult with the planning department for confirmation.
Thank you in advance.

sheenas

If you believe that the extension is within permitted development then you can apply for a lawful development certificate. That avoids the issues of going for full planning permission and you get reassurance to proceed with the extension.

Section62

Naturelover22 said:

...
I cannot find anything further about what the neighbour consultation would be or the guidelines for a project in this category from official sources.
I have enquired with local planning once on the phone with an admin person and once in writing as a pre planning enquiry and they say it would need planning permission as it is more than 3 metres from the rear wall. No mention of this 3 to 6 metres category.
What is this middle level permitted development I have read about or is this not in place anymore? Does anyone know what the gov guide is referring to if it is not full planning permission?
...

Search your local planning authority's site for information on "Prior Notification" and/or "Larger Home Extensions".

grumpy_codger

Naturelover22 said:

We are planning a 1 storey rear extension on our mid terrace house. We ideally want it to be 4 metres from the rear wall of current house....

Beware that for 4m 'lean to' a pitched tiled roof can be problematic.

Naturelover22

Thanks for the feedback,
I guess I would like to query it further but don't want to seem ackward at such an early stage!
That makes sense about applying for the lawful development certificate they can check if it falls in that category or not and we can approch planning permission later or just reduce the size of it to fit in and reapply.
Their website is not very clear and mostly links back to the planning portal which I have already read over.
I did ask about prior approval and larger home extension in my query but those bits were not responded to.

@grumpy_codger can you give more details? Is it too big for the lean too aspect, should we query another style of roof instead?

grumpy_codger

Naturelover22 said:
@grumpy_codger can you give more details? Is it too big for the lean too aspect, should we query another style of roof instead?

AFAIK, with the best tiles the minimum pitch is 12.5°. Depending on the position of the top windows (minus about 10cm+ for flashing) getting 12.5°+ pitch can be challenging without modifying the windows. Alternatives - flat roof, hip/gable roof.

Section62

Naturelover22 said:

Thanks for the feedback,
I guess I would like to query it further but don't want to seem ackward at such an early stage!
That makes sense about applying for the lawful development certificate they can check if it falls in that category or not and we can approch planning permission later or just reduce the size of it to fit in and reapply.
Their website is not very clear and mostly links back to the planning portal which I have already read over.
I did ask about prior approval and larger home extension in my query but those bits were not responded to.

@grumpy_codger can you give more details? Is it too big for the lean too aspect, should we query another style of roof instead?

Unless I've misunderstood something there's no point going for a LDC.  I don't understand why your architect is saying this is PD as for a terrace house the maximum from the original rear wall of the house is 3m for it to be PD.  4m is more than allowed.

LDCs used to be quite cheap, but now I think the standard planning fee for a LDC in your circumstances (in England) would be £264.  The larger extension prior approval standard fee should be £240 (check these costs with your local planning authority).  So not only are you likely to be told 'no' for the LDC, you are likely to pay more than it would cost for the prior approval route.

Generally, reducing the size of an extension simply to avoid the cost of a planning fee doesn't make sense.  In the context of spending a five or six figure sum on the building, paying even £528 for planning consent is a pretty minor cost.  Increasing the size of the extension from 3m to 4m won't usually cost 33% extra because the materials and labour for the additional 1m are much lower than the proportional cost.  Conversely, the additional 1m can make a very significant positive impact on the feeling of space.

stuart45

grumpy_codger said:

Naturelover22 said:
@grumpy_codger can you give more details? Is it too big for the lean too aspect, should we query another style of roof instead?

AFAIK, with the best tiles the minimum pitch is 12.5°. Depending on the position of the top windows (minus about 10cm+ for flashing) getting 12.5°+ pitch can be challenging without modifying the windows. Alternatives - flat roof, hip/gable roof.

Using inverted dormers is another option to solve that problem.

35har1old

Naturelover22 said:

Hi,
We are planning a 1 storey rear extension on our mid terrace house. We ideally want it to be 4 metres from the rear wall of current house.

I have been researching permitted development and the reputable sources (planning portal and gov guide to permitted development) refer to two categories for a terraced house, my interpretation below.
I am sure our house is not on article 2(3) land nor on a site of special scientific interest.
1. Up to 3 metres from rear wall=permitted development.
2. 3 to 6 metres from rear wall= larger single storey extension requires a neighbour consultation to be carried out.
3. 6 metres plus=planning permission.

I cannot find anything further about what the neighbour consultation would be or the guidelines for a project in this category from official sources.
I have enquired with local planning once on the phone with an admin person and once in writing as a pre planning enquiry and they say it would need planning permission as it is more than 3 metres from the rear wall. No mention of this 3 to 6 metres category.
What is this middle level permitted development I have read about or is this not in place anymore? Does anyone know what the gov guide is referring to if it is not full planning permission?

We are on a tight budget so I want to ensure we get the appropriate size plans and details drawn up without toing and froing about the size.
The architect has already advised to get a Lawful Planning Certificate before the build starts which is from local planning department anyway. They also say it appears to fall within permitted development but to always consult with the planning department for confirmation.
Thank you in advance.

Is there a percentage that you can  increase the size of the original?

Naturelover22

Hi all, thanks for the information and insights.
I have spoken further and been given some extra information, we will be classed as permitted development and need to apply for prior approval as someone mentioned above. If this is approved, then we are all good.
It should be fine, I am just naturally a worrier especially when it comes to rules, processes and permissions.

@Section62 I am quite sure now that if prior approval is granted we will not need the LDC anymore. I have looked at the form and prices on the planning portal now. (I think maybe for super extra peace of mind, when we sell in the future, but if we have proof of the prior approval being ok, will also cover it for future buyers.)
@grumpy_codger we have now discussed the roof with the architect, I think we are planning for a flat roof, which will allow skylights to be better positioned near the join of the old house to allow better light in thank the original lean to idea. I am a bit nervous re rainwater/flooding etc, however I am sure those worries will be sorted out as I learn more about the details.
@35har1old from what I recall it it something like 50% of the original curtilage (around or of) the building, which is fine in our situation.

Section62

Naturelover22 said:

...
I am quite sure now that if prior approval is granted we will not need the LDC anymore. I have looked at the form and prices on the planning portal now. (I think maybe for super extra peace of mind, when we sell in the future, but if we have proof of the prior approval being ok, will also cover it for future buyers.)
...

Yes, it is an either/or, not both.  As a larger home extension the correct route is prior approval.  The LDC route would be appropriate if there was uncertainty whether the proposal was permitted development or not, or about which class of PD applied.