Can a young adult claim Universal Credit whilst their parent received maintanence?

kroebuck1981

I’m struggling to get a clear answer on this. If a parent claims Child Benefit and Child maintenance until 31st August in the year their child turns 18, and they’re still receiving  this Child Maintenance for the same period, can the young person still claim Universal Credit themselves?

They haven’t decided yet whether they’ll go to university. I always thought they couldn’t claim UC until both Child Benefit and Child Maintenance stopped. However, this young person has just been to the Jobcentre, and they've been approved for Universal Credit — even though both payments are still coming in until August.

This seems strange to me, as it could potentially open things up for all 18-year-olds finishing A-levels in the summer before heading off to uni. Has anyone else experienced this, or know if this is the usual process?

If this is a thing i'll get my child to apply too as we are struggling to fathom how to pay for uni!  Surely not though!?

NedS

In terms of UC, a child or qualifying young person (QYP) should stay on their parents UC claim (if they are claiming) until they no longer meet the eligibility requirements. For a QYP, they remain eligible for the child element as long as they remain in non-advanced education, and no are longer eligible the day after the official end date of their course (this is normally around mid July, so may well have been last Friday - check with the college).

Once they no longer qualify as a QYP they should be removed from any parent's UC claim, and at that point they are free to make a claim for UC in their own right (assuming they are over 18 and not turning 18 in late July or August). If they go to Uni in September, then they would cease to be eligible the day their Uni course (Advanced Education) starts.

I understand child benefit runs on until the 31st August. I do not know if child benefit should stop if the young person makes a claim for UC. I do not know about Child Maintenance. I do not think either would prevent the young person making a claim for UC in their own right, but doing so may affect the benefits their parents receive for them.

With respect to your own child, most young people choose not to make a claim for UC during the summer between A levels and Uni as either they are already working in a summer job or they have no intention of working and wish to spend their last summer at home enjoying themselves celebrating the end of their A levels before departing for Uni, so would not be eligible for UC as they are not spending 35h/week actively seeking work. It would be a lot of hassle and effort for what may only be one payment of UC depending on the date their Uni course starts. Remembering back to when I was that age, I had a summer job and was also out partying pretty hard before heading off to Uni - claiming benefits would have been the last thing on my mind.

kaMelo

I'm not totally sure but I always thought  by claiming UC in their own right they cease to be a dependent child which would end child benefit at the same time, and by extention the NRP is no longer required to pay maintenance from that point either.

Northern_Wanderer

Child element will cease when the child benefit ceases (could be 31/08/25, depending on date of leaving education). Child maintenance ceases when Child benefit ceases. A young person can claim UC from age 18 in most cases. When a young person makes a UC claim in their own right, all entitlement for child benefit ceases, and thus child maintenance and child element of UC stops. The parent would have to inform child benefit and UC of the change of circumstances. Usually students do not qualify for UC, there are exceptions. You would have to work out if the child payments added together are worth more than the single person under 25 amount would be to decide when to claim. 

Northern_Wanderer

NedS said:

In terms of UC, a child or qualifying young person (QYP) should stay on their parents UC claim (if they are claiming) until they no longer meet the eligibility requirements. For a QYP, they remain eligible for the child element as long as they remain in non-advanced education, and no are longer eligible the day after the official end date of their course (this is normally around mid July, so may well have been last Friday - check with the college).

Once they no longer qualify as a QYP they should be removed from any parent's UC claim, and at that point they are free to make a claim for UC in their own right (assuming they are over 18 and not turning 18 in late July or August). If they go to Uni in September, then they would cease to be eligible the day their Uni course (Advanced Education) starts.

I believe this to be incorrect. They will be a QYP until the Terminal Date which is the first of the following that falls after the date the child left education. i.e last day Feb, 31st May, 31 Aug, 30 Nov. Child element of UC will end when child benefit ends.

NedS

Northern_Wanderer said:

NedS said:

In terms of UC, a child or qualifying young person (QYP) should stay on their parents UC claim (if they are claiming) until they no longer meet the eligibility requirements. For a QYP, they remain eligible for the child element as long as they remain in non-advanced education, and no are longer eligible the day after the official end date of their course (this is normally around mid July, so may well have been last Friday - check with the college).

Once they no longer qualify as a QYP they should be removed from any parent's UC claim, and at that point they are free to make a claim for UC in their own right (assuming they are over 18 and not turning 18 in late July or August). If they go to Uni in September, then they would cease to be eligible the day their Uni course (Advanced Education) starts.

I believe this to be incorrect. They will be a QYP until the Terminal Date which is the first of the following that falls after the date the child left education. i.e last day Feb, 31st May, 31 Aug, 30 Nov. Child element of UC will end when child benefit ends.

No, that is definitely not correct. I spent a significant amount of time working on this last year, and entitlement definitely ends on the last day of the course. To be a QYP, they MUST be in non-advanced education - when the course ends (normally mid July), they are no longer in non-advanced education and are therefore no longer a QYP - entitlement ends

In previous years there has been a lot of confusion and mixed messages around this, and UC has been consistently getting this wrong and paying for the QYP through to the end of Aug, the same as CHB, but this is not correct. Last year UC started sending out ToDo's/journal messages in July asking if the QYP was continuing in non-advanced education. If the claimant reported no and gave the date the course ended, the child element stopped, but it's reliant on the claimant correctly reporting on time that the QYP is no longer in non-advanced education.

8dayweek

NedS said:

No, that is definitely not correct. I spent a significant amount of time working on this last year, and entitlement definitely ends on the last day of the course. To be a QYP, they MUST be in non-advanced education - when the course ends (normally mid July), they are no longer in non-advanced education and are therefore no longer a QYP - entitlement ends

In previous years there has been a lot of confusion and mixed messages around this, and UC has been consistently getting this wrong and paying for the QYP through to the end of Aug, the same as CHB, but this is not correct. Last year UC started sending out ToDo's/journal messages in July asking if the QYP was continuing in non-advanced education. If the claimant reported no and gave the date the course ended, the child element stopped, but it's reliant on the claimant correctly reporting on time that the QYP is no longer in non-advanced education.

^ This is correct. UC Child Element and Child Benefit terminal dates are not the same. 

Additionally, you have to let Child Benefit know if your Child starts to receive UC in their own right. The result being Child Benefit ends immediately, not at the end of August as it would do otherwise. 

(Over the years I’ve certainly seen Overpayments + Civil Penalties for failure to report this - however usually when it’s Child Benefit and CTC or UC Child Element together which have been over claimed). 

I presume there’s a similar clause with Child Maintenance in so far as the Child receiving benefits in their own right - hence ceasing to be a dependant Child or Qualifying Young Person - ends the Child Maintenance liability. 

Northern_Wanderer

NedS said:

Northern_Wanderer said:

NedS said:

In terms of UC, a child or qualifying young person (QYP) should stay on their parents UC claim (if they are claiming) until they no longer meet the eligibility requirements. For a QYP, they remain eligible for the child element as long as they remain in non-advanced education, and no are longer eligible the day after the official end date of their course (this is normally around mid July, so may well have been last Friday - check with the college).

Once they no longer qualify as a QYP they should be removed from any parent's UC claim, and at that point they are free to make a claim for UC in their own right (assuming they are over 18 and not turning 18 in late July or August). If they go to Uni in September, then they would cease to be eligible the day their Uni course (Advanced Education) starts.

I believe this to be incorrect. They will be a QYP until the Terminal Date which is the first of the following that falls after the date the child left education. i.e last day Feb, 31st May, 31 Aug, 30 Nov. Child element of UC will end when child benefit ends.

No, that is definitely not correct. I spent a significant amount of time working on this last year, and entitlement definitely ends on the last day of the course. To be a QYP, they MUST be in non-advanced education - when the course ends (normally mid July), they are no longer in non-advanced education and are therefore no longer a QYP - entitlement ends

In previous years there has been a lot of confusion and mixed messages around this, and UC has been consistently getting this wrong and paying for the QYP through to the end of Aug, the same as CHB, but this is not correct. Last year UC started sending out ToDo's/journal messages in July asking if the QYP was continuing in non-advanced education. If the claimant reported no and gave the date the course ended, the child element stopped, but it's reliant on the claimant correctly reporting on time that the QYP is no longer in non-advanced education.

I have double checked this in the CPAG Welfare Benefits & Tax Credits Handbook 26th Edition.

For UC, it states that 16-19 yr olds are a qualifying young person (QYP) and has been accepted on FT non-advanced education Pg62 (no end date given here, it does not state it ends on the date they leave education), and you are responsible for them. It goes on to state (pg63) that they do not count as a child when claiming certain benefits in their own right (UC is included) and so do not qualify as a QYP. Pg 63 states DWP checks you are responsible for them if still getting child benefit for them. It then refers you to pg 549 re QYP/ child benefit. A QYP is 16-19 yr old who is not in education and it is before the Terminal Date (TD) (but not if in paid work over 24hrs/week). TD is the first of following dates that falls after child left education - last day Feb, 31 May, 31 Aug, 30 Nov (pg 552).

I deduce the Terminal Date is the important date for ending of child element if not claiming UC in their own right or working (although it is 31 Aug following their 19th birthday).

What proof do you have it is the date the QYP leaves education that the UC child element ends?

NedS

I refer you to the UC Regs 2013, regulation 5 which defines a QYP as:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/5

5.—(1) A person who has reached the age of 16 but not the age of 20 is a qualifying young person for the purposes of Part 1 of the Act and these Regulations—

(a)up to, but not including, the 1st September following their 16th birthday; and

(b)up to, but not including, the 1st September following their 19th birthday, if they are enrolled on, or accepted for, approved training or a course of education

The key part above is reg 5(1)(b):

(b)up to, but not including, the 1st September following their 19th birthday, if they are enrolled on, or accepted for, approved training or a course of education

The key point here is that as of ~mid July once their course officially ends they are no longer enrolled on, or accepted for, approved training or a course of education, so by definition they fail to meet the definition of a QYP the day after their course ends.

If they were 19 years old and were staying in non advanced education (maybe they are repeating a year they failed), then they would continue to be a QYP and eligible upto but not including the 1st September, but if their course has ended by definition they fail to meet the eligibility criteria the day after the course ends.

From Reg 5(1)(a) above, the run on date of up to 1st September does apply for a 16 year old finishing education, but it does not apply to 17, 18 and 19 year old QYP's [5(1)(b)] where the condition of enrolment or acceptance on a course of education applies (note also that condition is absent in Reg 5(1)(a) indicating that the two cases are different under legislation)

So a simple question - for a 19 YO whose course has ended mid July, on what grounds do you think they meet the definition in Reg 5 of a QYP and hence have eligibility in the month of August? I think part of the issue here is people stop reading half way through Reg 5(1)(b) ignore the relevance of the second half of the sentence.

Northern_Wanderer

NedS said:

I refer you to the UC Regs 2013, regulation 5 which defines a QYP as:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/5

5.—(1) A person who has reached the age of 16 but not the age of 20 is a qualifying young person for the purposes of Part 1 of the Act and these Regulations—

(a)up to, but not including, the 1st September following their 16th birthday; and

(b)up to, but not including, the 1st September following their 19th birthday, if they are enrolled on, or accepted for, approved training or a course of education

The key part above is reg 5(1)(b):

(b)up to, but not including, the 1st September following their 19th birthday, if they are enrolled on, or accepted for, approved training or a course of education

The key point here is that as of ~mid July once their course officially ends they are no longer enrolled on, or accepted for, approved training or a course of education, so by definition they fail to meet the definition of a QYP the day after their course ends.

If they were 19 years old and were staying in non advanced education (maybe they are repeating a year they failed), then they would continue to be a QYP and eligible upto but not including the 1st September, but if their course has ended by definition they fail to meet the eligibility criteria the day after the course ends.

From Reg 5(1)(a) above, the run on date of up to 1st September does apply for a 16 year old finishing education, but it does not apply to 17, 18 and 19 year old QYP's [5(1)(b)] where the condition of enrolment or acceptance on a course of education applies (note also that condition is absent in Reg 5(1)(a) indicating that the two cases are different under legislation)

So a simple question - for a 19 YO whose course has ended mid July, on what grounds do you think they meet the definition in Reg 5 of a QYP and hence have eligibility in the month of August? I think part of the issue here is people stop reading half way through Reg 5(1)(b) ignore the relevance of the second half of the sentence.

Thanks for this, I understand now. So for the OP's child who is 18, they are no longer "Enrolled on" their course and thus entitlement to child element of UC ends when course ends. OP should inform UC of that change of circumstances if not already done so to prevent overpayments of UC. 

I will try to amend my above posts.

NedS

Northern_Wanderer said:

NedS said:

I refer you to the UC Regs 2013, regulation 5 which defines a QYP as:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/5

5.—(1) A person who has reached the age of 16 but not the age of 20 is a qualifying young person for the purposes of Part 1 of the Act and these Regulations—

(a)up to, but not including, the 1st September following their 16th birthday; and

(b)up to, but not including, the 1st September following their 19th birthday, if they are enrolled on, or accepted for, approved training or a course of education

The key part above is reg 5(1)(b):

(b)up to, but not including, the 1st September following their 19th birthday, if they are enrolled on, or accepted for, approved training or a course of education

The key point here is that as of ~mid July once their course officially ends they are no longer enrolled on, or accepted for, approved training or a course of education, so by definition they fail to meet the definition of a QYP the day after their course ends.

If they were 19 years old and were staying in non advanced education (maybe they are repeating a year they failed), then they would continue to be a QYP and eligible upto but not including the 1st September, but if their course has ended by definition they fail to meet the eligibility criteria the day after the course ends.

From Reg 5(1)(a) above, the run on date of up to 1st September does apply for a 16 year old finishing education, but it does not apply to 17, 18 and 19 year old QYP's [5(1)(b)] where the condition of enrolment or acceptance on a course of education applies (note also that condition is absent in Reg 5(1)(a) indicating that the two cases are different under legislation)

So a simple question - for a 19 YO whose course has ended mid July, on what grounds do you think they meet the definition in Reg 5 of a QYP and hence have eligibility in the month of August? I think part of the issue here is people stop reading half way through Reg 5(1)(b) ignore the relevance of the second half of the sentence.

Thanks for this, I understand now. So for the OP's child who is 18, they are no longer "Enrolled on" their course and thus entitlement to child element of UC ends when course ends. OP should inform UC of that change of circumstances if not already done so to prevent overpayments of UC. 

I will try to amend my above posts.

No need to amend your posts - it's useful to be able to see how the discussion evolved. We are all allowed to be wrong occasionally and learn new stuff (I know I am/do). No one knows everything about UC, I can guarantee you that!

I know this area is confusing, and it absolutely has not helped that UC have been getting it wrong for a number of years. Overpayments have absolutely occurred en mass and there has been little to no attempt to identify or recover them. They are finally trying to improve messaging around this to affected claimants in summer, but ultimately it rests with the claimant reporting the change on time, and if UC can’t wrap their heads around the legislation, how is a claimant supposed to know when they should report a change.