Stepmum trying to demand money

Section62

fatbelly said:

As executor she has a duty to finalise his estate. That would include calling in any debts to the estate.

Treat this as a business exercise and respond in writing along the lines of...

'I am aware of the sum that you refer to and it is my understanding that it was given as a gift. If you have any written evidence to the contrary, please let me have sight of it'

If she can't prove it to you, she can't prove it to a court

I'd word that slightly differently as -

'I am aware of the sum that you refer to which was a gift made to me by my late father for the benefit of his grandchildren. If you have any written evidence to the contrary, please let me have sight of it'

'Understanding' introduces an element of doubt, which in this case could be a weakness if the gift isn't fully documented and the stepmum goes through with her threats.  The OP knows the money was gifted, so can state that with confidence.

Section62

UnsureAboutthis said:

Keep_pedalling said:

She has no right to demand the money back, I would bin the letter and have no more contact with her. 

She, (Stepmum)can "demand" but the law is on the OP's side.

If it goes to court, OP will need evidence to prove it was a 'gift' and this is why it is important to document git and give a copy to those you gift or their guardians/parents

We've often gifted amounts via direct bank transfers and written the words eg,  'GIFT to XXXXXX - I'm pretty sure that will carry some weight in court but  for larger amounts, get it written paper and signed.  

So, when the money was gifted, you have any bank records or written evidence that states that?

In a legal claim I'm fairly sure the onus would be on the stepmum to prove it wasn't a gift.  Any written evidence the OP has of the gift status would be helpful, but the characteristics (e.g. being placed in trust funds for the children) already have the hallmark of being a gift, not a loan.

Proof it was a gift might be more relevant for IHT purposes, in some cases.

bobster2

UnsureAboutthis said:

If it goes to court, OP will need evidence to prove it was a 'gift' and this is why it is important to document git and give a copy to those you gift or their guardians/parents

The burden of proof lies with the stepmum to prove this was a loan - e.g. produce a loan agreement. If the stepmum produces no evidence of this - then the OP won't need to prove anything.

See the "Presumption of Advancement" - money transferred to a spouse or child is considered to be a gift in the absence of any evidence to the contrary...

https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/insights/blogs/private-client-law-blog/was-it-a-gift-or-was-it-a-loan

https://www.the-inheritance-experts.co.uk/presumption-of-advancement-what-you-need-to-know/

Sea_Shell

Is SM just getting confused between having to declare the gift for the IHT forms and is mistaken in thinking it needs to be repaid to the estate?

bobster2

Sea_Shell said:

Is SM just getting confused between having to declare the gift for the IHT forms and is mistaken in thinking it needs to be repaid to the estate?

Yes - this is the most charitable explanation. People often get confused about this when they see the IHT form. Or think the gift recipients have to pay IHT directly (not true unless gifts exceed NRB).

Highlandchick

UnsureAboutthis said:

Keep_pedalling said:

She has no right to demand the money back, I would bin the letter and have no more contact with her. 

She, (Stepmum)can "demand" but the law is on the OP's side.

If it goes to court, OP will need evidence to prove it was a 'gift' and this is why it is important to document git and give a copy to those you gift or their guardians/parents

We've often gifted amounts via direct bank transfers and written the words eg,  'GIFT to XXXXXX - I'm pretty sure that will carry some weight in court but  for larger amounts, get it written paper and signed.  

So, when the money was gifted, you have any bank records or written evidence that states that?

I have my bank statement showing me receiving the money then me transferring into my kids trust fund accounts 

Linton

Highlandchick said:

UnsureAboutthis said:

Keep_pedalling said:

She has no right to demand the money back, I would bin the letter and have no more contact with her. 

She, (Stepmum)can "demand" but the law is on the OP's side.

If it goes to court, OP will need evidence to prove it was a 'gift' and this is why it is important to document git and give a copy to those you gift or their guardians/parents

We've often gifted amounts via direct bank transfers and written the words eg,  'GIFT to XXXXXX - I'm pretty sure that will carry some weight in court but  for larger amounts, get it written paper and signed.  

So, when the money was gifted, you have any bank records or written evidence that states that?

I have my bank statement showing me receiving the money then me transferring into my kids trust fund accounts 

A prima facie point could be why would you want to take out a loan to put money into a trust for the long term benefit of your children. It seems on odd thing to do. O the other hand it’s a perfectly reasonable action for a grandparent.

UnsureAboutthis

Highlandchick said:

UnsureAboutthis said:

Keep_pedalling said:

She has no right to demand the money back, I would bin the letter and have no more contact with her. 

She, (Stepmum)can "demand" but the law is on the OP's side.

If it goes to court, OP will need evidence to prove it was a 'gift' and this is why it is important to document git and give a copy to those you gift or their guardians/parents

We've often gifted amounts via direct bank transfers and written the words eg,  'GIFT to XXXXXX - I'm pretty sure that will carry some weight in court but  for larger amounts, get it written paper and signed.  

So, when the money was gifted, you have any bank records or written evidence that states that?

I have my bank statement showing me receiving the money then me transferring into my kids trust fund accounts 

Yes, I got IHT confused with the gift you are talking about, the onus of proof is on your stepmother.

However, having the money marked as "gift" helopsIMO

noitsnotme

UnsureAboutthis said:

Section62 said:

UnsureAboutthis said:

Keep_pedalling said:

She has no right to demand the money back, I would bin the letter and have no more contact with her. 

She, (Stepmum)can "demand" but the law is on the OP's side.

If it goes to court, OP will need evidence to prove it was a 'gift' and this is why it is important to document git and give a copy to those you gift or their guardians/parents

We've often gifted amounts via direct bank transfers and written the words eg,  'GIFT to XXXXXX - I'm pretty sure that will carry some weight in court but  for larger amounts, get it written paper and signed.  

So, when the money was gifted, you have any bank records or written evidence that states that?

In a legal claim I'm fairly sure the onus would be on the stepmum to prove it wasn't a gift.  Any written evidence the OP has of the gift status would be helpful, but the characteristics (e.g. being placed in trust funds for the children) already have the hallmark of being a gift, not a loan.

Proof it was a gift might be more relevant for IHT purposes, in some cases.

Maybe but on the whole I disagree with you and so will the courts on most occasions in my view.

More often than not, people give loans to their children without any written agreement.   When parents gift a substantial amouth (whatever that is to anyone) and the parent is with is married to the childs step-parent, it is sensible to have written evidence oand or at least as I detailed

In my view, the burden of proff of a gift from a parent is on the person that was given the gift. In cash terms, often, we do anyway, write in the bank details why we are transferring money a "GIFT to Anyname"

Please just stop!  You are misleading people who come to this forum for advice.  You’ve been banned from this forum twice before for this type of behaviour, you should have learned by now.

noitsnotme

UnsureAboutthis said:

A quick Google came up with results from AI

(NB this comes with a warning that the info may be incorrect but makes sense to me as I posted earlier ie, the burden of proof is on the person receiving the gift and it makes sense to me. However, in court, different judges/lawyers etc can make a case as they go along.


From AI

AI Overview

In England and Wales, if a step-parent claims a gift of money given before the parent's death was not a gift, the recipient (the stepchild) will need to prove the deceased parent intended to make a gift. This is because the burden of proof lies on the person claiming the gift. 

Here's a breakdown of the situation and what's required:

1. The Claim:

• The step-parent, as an executor or beneficiary of the estate, is claiming the money was not a gift, but a loan or part of the estate that should be distributed according to the will or intestacy rules. 
• The stepchild is asserting the money was a genuine gift given during the parent's lifetime. 

2. Proof Required:

• Intention to Gift:

  The stepchild must demonstrate that the deceased parent intended to give the money as a gift, not a loan or something else. 
• Delivery of the Gift:

  The stepchild needs to show that the money was actually transferred to them, either directly or via a third party. 
• Considerations:

  The recipient must prove that the deceased understood the nature of the gift, including its value and potential impact on their estate. 
• Evidence:

  This could include bank statements showing the transfer, emails, letters, or any other documentation indicating the parent's intention to gift the money. 
• Witness Testimony:

  If available, witness testimony from someone who was aware of the gift or the parent's intention could be helpful. 
• No Undue Influence:

  The stepchild may also need to show that the gift was not made under duress or undue influence. 

3. Role of the Executor:

• The executor of the will or administrator of the estate has a duty to investigate any lifetime gifts made by the deceased. 
• They may need to review bank statements, interview family and friends, and gather evidence to determine the validity of the gift. 
• If the executor is not satisfied with the evidence, they may challenge the gift in court. 

4. Possible Challenges:

• The step-parent (or other beneficiaries) may challenge the gift on the grounds of lack of capacity, undue influence, or that the gift was not validly made. 
• If the gift was made within 7 years of death, it may be subject to inheritance tax. 
• The executor may need to determine if the gift was a potentially exempt transfer (PET), meaning it could be subject to inheritance tax if the donor dies within 7 years. 

In summary, the stepchild claiming a gift needs to provide evidence of their parent's intention to gift the money, the actual transfer of the funds, and that it was not made under duress or undue influence. The executor has a responsibility to investigate and challenge any potentially invalid gifts. 

• Promise or Gift Before Death - Mullis & Peake

  Can a gift made before death be challenged? It sometimes happens that a person makes a significant gift prior to their death. A be...

  

  Mullis & Peake

  
• The end game: gifting when time is running out - Russell-Cooke

  17 Oct 2024 — This is a subjective test and it will be for the recipient of the gift to prove the donor's belief at the time of makin...

  

  Russell-Cooke

  
• Gifts, loans, debts and death - New Square Chambers

  Under English and Welsh law, the general principle is that for a transfer of money to constitute a gift, there must be evidence of...

  

  New Square Chambers

  
• Show all

AI responses may include mistakes. For legal advice, consult a professional. Learn more

The last line is just perfect…

“AI responses may include mistakes. For legal advice, consult a professional.”