Neighbours fence

Bubbles737

My neighbour is the owner of the fence dividing our properties. Three panels have fallen together and the bottom half are lying in my garden. He said he has no money to fix it. I want to secure my garden so will put up a fence on my side of the boundary but his broken fence needs to be moved before mine can be installed. I asked contractors to carefully return it to his side. He came out and aggressively told them that it must stay exactly where it is and he threatened trespass and criminal damage charges if they touched it. The three panels are still joined by two posts but will break more when moved as they are badly damaged already. What are my options?

Brie

I can understand him being upset if you have hired people to dismantle his fence as that's his property.  If there is a portion of it fallen into your garden then you do have the right to return that portion to him - whether it breaks apart further or not.  

Is his fence repairable?  would you be willing to repair it rather than try to replace it?

grumpy_codger

Bubbles737 said:

....... He came out and aggressively told them that it must stay exactly where it is and he threatened trespass and criminal damage charges if they touched it. ...

Empty threats. Take photos before and after or, preferably a video. Or just move the fallen fence away on your side and then write him a letter giving him, say, a week to collect it.
If he keeps behaving agressively, call the police.

Keep_pedalling

I can understand why your contractors would want to get involved with a legal dispute. I your position I would get a photgraphic record of the current situation and remove them myself the panels are on your property and you have a right to remove them.

marcia_

 Ignore him, the police press charges and wont be interested in a neighbour dispute . 

sheenas

I think you would within you rights and be required to return the fence. No idea why he is getting aggressive about it.
alternatively get a wood chipper and return the chippings though his letter box .

Bubbles737

Everything I have read is so conflicting. Yes I am allowed to move it back without his permission but if I cause more damage he can claim criminal damage and if I accidentally cross to his side he can claim trespass. It will not be possible to move it without more damage because it is too big and broken and there is not enough room without going on his side. He will not give permission in fact he will not even talk about it

WIAWSNB

Hi Bubbles.

I don't completely follow what is going on here. 

You say your neighbour is the 'owner' of the existing fence? Ok, that usually means that he paid for it, and - more importantly - it sits on his side of the known boundary line. So, do you know where the actual-but-invisible boundary line lies?

If your houses are semi or terraced, then almost certainly the answer will be 'yes' - you can point out the exact boundary line. If detached, then it might be more tricky, but if you are both in agreement that (a) that's his fence, and (b) it sits on his side, that's good enough - unless one of you wants to go 'legal' (which you don't, really).

Ok, I'm assuming that you do know - accept - where the actual boundary line runs, and that the current fence is just touching that line, but is fully on the neighbour's side. That makes it 100% his fence - he owns it, and it's on his land. Cool.

But, if it leans over this line, it's trespassing, and you can move it. 

If that is the case, then no cop on this planet - unless a gun-toter from Texas, YEEE-HAAA! - is going to say anything if you 'give' this neighbour's fence 'back' to him. 

If this is the scenario here, then your best approach would be - always calmly and pleasantly - to first ask the neighbour to move his 'trespassing' panels back on to his land, or else you are entitled to do so. Give him, ooh, a couple of days to do this. Unless he just says, "NO!". In which case you give him back his property forthwith.

Important - you must evidence that you've done this correctly. So, have your phone videoing/recording - surreptitiously to begin with if you want - your initial approach and request. If he refuses, especially aggressively, then you bring out your phone, hold it in a 'selfie' manner - ie to capture you both - eg high up, pointing down, or someone else has it - and repeat your request. If he repeats his 'nope', then you state something like, "Ok, I have explained the situation and given you the opportunity to remove your damaged and trespassing fence from my land, and you have refused to do so. I will now do this myself, and won't be responsible for any inadvertent damage caused. You want to say anything?".   

I can tell you with 99.999% certainty that he will not get anywhere with any claim against you. If he phones the police, the local Bobby will be cross with him for being such a twit. 

So, to reiterate, if the existing fence is fully his, and fully on his land, you shouldn't touch it - unless it trespasses. In which case you cover yer botty as described above. And then you move it. 

That's it. You do not engage in a discussion or argument. If he's truly aggressive, then take out your phone and call the local police in front of him./ But make sure someone is also recording the whole incident.

You then build your fence, fully on your side of the boundary, and he must not touch it. He must not paint it, hang things on it, let plants climb on it. It is 100% yours.

And if you have LegProt in your house insurance, you can take action against him if he causes any such 'damage' to it.

An alternative approach - perhaps to try first - is to offer to replace his broken panels, in the current location. Make that as a kind gesture - "I know it's your fence, but I'm happy to replace these few panels if you'd prefer this to me putting up my own fence?" Big cheesy grin.

Albermarle

WIAWSNB said:

Hi Bubbles.

I don't completely follow what is going on here. 

You say your neighbour is the 'owner' of the existing fence? Ok, that usually means that he paid for it, and - more importantly - it sits on his side of the known boundary line. So, do you know where the actual-but-invisible boundary line lies?

If your houses are semi or terraced, then almost certainly the answer will be 'yes' - you can point out the exact boundary line. If detached, then it might be more tricky, but if you are both in agreement that (a) that's his fence, and (b) it sits on his side, that's good enough - unless one of you wants to go 'legal' (which you don't, really).

Ok, I'm assuming that you do know - accept - where the actual boundary line runs, and that the current fence is just touching that line, but is fully on the neighbour's side. That makes it 100% his fence - he owns it, and it's on his land. Cool.

But, if it leans over this line, it's trespassing, and you can move it. 

If that is the case, then no cop on this planet - unless a gun-totter from Texas, YEEE-HAAA! - is going to say anything if you 'give' this neighbour's fence 'back' to him. 

If this is the scenario here, then your best approach would be - always calmly and pleasantly - to first ask the neighbour to move his 'trespassing' panels back on to his land, or else you are entitled to do so. Give him, ooh, a couple of days to do this. Unless he just says, "NO!". In which case you give him back his property forthwith.

Important - you must evidence that you've done this correctly. So, have your phone videoing - surreptitiously to begin with if you want - your initial approach and request. If he refuses, especially aggressively, then you bring out your phone, hold it in a 'selfie' manner - ie to capture you both - eg high up, pointing down - and repeat your request. If he repeats his 'nope', then you state something like, "Ok, I have explained the situation and given you the opportunity to remove your damaged and trespassing fence from my land, and you have refused to do so. I will now do this myself, and won't be responsible for inadvertent damage caused. You want to say anything?".   

I can tell you, with 99.999% certainty - that he will not get anywhere with any claim against you. Igf he phones the police, the local Bobby will be cross with him for being such a twit. 

So, to reiterate, if the existing fence is fully his, and fully on his land, you shouldn't touch it - unless it trespasses. In which case you cover yer botty as described above.

You then build your fence, fully on your side of the boundary, and he must not touch it. He must not paint it, hang things on it, let plants climb on it. It is 100% yours.

An alternative approach - perhaps to try first - is to offer to replace his broken panels, in the current location. Make that as a kind gesture - "I know it's your fence, but I'm happy to replace these few panels if you'd prefer this to me putting up my own fence?" Big cheesy grin.

You forgot to ask the OP if he had legal protection with his house insurance 

WIAWSNB

Albermarle said:

WIAWSNB said:

Hi Bubbles.

I don't completely follow what is going on here. 

You say your neighbour is the 'owner' of the existing fence? Ok, that usually means that he paid for it, and - more importantly - it sits on his side of the known boundary line. So, do you know where the actual-but-invisible boundary line lies?

If your houses are semi or terraced, then almost certainly the answer will be 'yes' - you can point out the exact boundary line. If detached, then it might be more tricky, but if you are both in agreement that (a) that's his fence, and (b) it sits on his side, that's good enough - unless one of you wants to go 'legal' (which you don't, really).

Ok, I'm assuming that you do know - accept - where the actual boundary line runs, and that the current fence is just touching that line, but is fully on the neighbour's side. That makes it 100% his fence - he owns it, and it's on his land. Cool.

But, if it leans over this line, it's trespassing, and you can move it. 

If that is the case, then no cop on this planet - unless a gun-totter from Texas, YEEE-HAAA! - is going to say anything if you 'give' this neighbour's fence 'back' to him. 

If this is the scenario here, then your best approach would be - always calmly and pleasantly - to first ask the neighbour to move his 'trespassing' panels back on to his land, or else you are entitled to do so. Give him, ooh, a couple of days to do this. Unless he just says, "NO!". In which case you give him back his property forthwith.

Important - you must evidence that you've done this correctly. So, have your phone videoing - surreptitiously to begin with if you want - your initial approach and request. If he refuses, especially aggressively, then you bring out your phone, hold it in a 'selfie' manner - ie to capture you both - eg high up, pointing down - and repeat your request. If he repeats his 'nope', then you state something like, "Ok, I have explained the situation and given you the opportunity to remove your damaged and trespassing fence from my land, and you have refused to do so. I will now do this myself, and won't be responsible for inadvertent damage caused. You want to say anything?".   

I can tell you, with 99.999% certainty - that he will not get anywhere with any claim against you. Igf he phones the police, the local Bobby will be cross with him for being such a twit. 

So, to reiterate, if the existing fence is fully his, and fully on his land, you shouldn't touch it - unless it trespasses. In which case you cover yer botty as described above.

You then build your fence, fully on your side of the boundary, and he must not touch it. He must not paint it, hang things on it, let plants climb on it. It is 100% yours.

An alternative approach - perhaps to try first - is to offer to replace his broken panels, in the current location. Make that as a kind gesture - "I know it's your fence, but I'm happy to replace these few panels if you'd prefer this to me putting up my own fence?" Big cheesy grin.

You forgot to ask the OP if he had legal protection with his house insurance 

Ah, you missed my updated version (big sticky-out tongue emoji...)

Bubbles737

WIAWSNB said:

Hi Bubbles.

I don't completely follow what is going on here. 

You say your neighbour is the 'owner' of the existing fence? Ok, that usually means that he paid for it, and - more importantly - it sits on his side of the known boundary line. So, do you know where the actual-but-invisible boundary line lies?

If your houses are semi or terraced, then almost certainly the answer will be 'yes' - you can point out the exact boundary line. If detached, then it might be more tricky, but if you are both in agreement that (a) that's his fence, and (b) it sits on his side, that's good enough - unless one of you wants to go 'legal' (which you don't, really).

Ok, I'm assuming that you do know - accept - where the actual boundary line runs, and that the current fence is just touching that line, but is fully on the neighbour's side. That makes it 100% his fence - he owns it, and it's on his land. Cool.

But, if it leans over this line, it's trespassing, and you can move it. 

If that is the case, then no cop on this planet - unless a gun-toter from Texas, YEEE-HAAA! - is going to say anything if you 'give' this neighbour's fence 'back' to him. 

If this is the scenario here, then your best approach would be - always calmly and pleasantly - to first ask the neighbour to move his 'trespassing' panels back on to his land, or else you are entitled to do so. Give him, ooh, a couple of days to do this. Unless he just says, "NO!". In which case you give him back his property forthwith.

Important - you must evidence that you've done this correctly. So, have your phone videoing/recording - surreptitiously to begin with if you want - your initial approach and request. If he refuses, especially aggressively, then you bring out your phone, hold it in a 'selfie' manner - ie to capture you both - eg high up, pointing down, or someone else has it - and repeat your request. If he repeats his 'nope', then you state something like, "Ok, I have explained the situation and given you the opportunity to remove your damaged and trespassing fence from my land, and you have refused to do so. I will now do this myself, and won't be responsible for any inadvertent damage caused. You want to say anything?".   

I can tell you, with 99.999% certainty - that he will not get anywhere with any claim against you. Igf he phones the police, the local Bobby will be cross with him for being such a twit. 

So, to reiterate, if the existing fence is fully his, and fully on his land, you shouldn't touch it - unless it trespasses. In which case you cover yer botty as described above.

You then build your fence, fully on your side of the boundary, and he must not touch it. He must not paint it, hang things on it, let plants climb on it. It is 100% yours.

An alternative approach - perhaps to try first - is to offer to replace his broken panels, in the current location. Make that as a kind gesture - "I know it's your fence, but I'm happy to replace these few panels if you'd prefer this to me putting up my own fence?" Big cheesy grin.

Thank you. Yes you have grasped the nuances of this issue perfectly and your assumptions are all correct. Thank you for the plan of action. 

He has let the fence fall into disrepair for years and 9 years ago I approached him about it because panels were missing. He said he would fix it but did nothing so I want my own fence on my own land.