Roofer charged VAT but no VAT number on invoice???

itm2

savergrant said:

itm2 said:

The invoice shows VAT of £720. I've just seen that, according to their Checkatrade profile, they are not VAT registered. So I would say that it is very much my business???

As I understand it you pay VAT, the trader collects it on behalf of HMRC. If the trader has told you that you need to pay VAT but they are not registered then they have taken money under false pretences. I suggest you contact the business and ask them for their VAT registration number as you are querying the VAT charged by them.  It may be that they have subcontracted the work or have bought materials on your behalf.  Is the VAT 20% of the whole bill or only part?

Yep that's my understanding (having been a VAT-registered trader myself for 20 years when I was working).
The VAT was 20% of the whole bill.

GDB2222

itm2 said:

savergrant said:

itm2 said:

The invoice shows VAT of £720. I've just seen that, according to their Checkatrade profile, they are not VAT registered. So I would say that it is very much my business???

As I understand it you pay VAT, the trader collects it on behalf of HMRC. If the trader has told you that you need to pay VAT but they are not registered then they have taken money under false pretences. I suggest you contact the business and ask them for their VAT registration number as you are querying the VAT charged by them.  It may be that they have subcontracted the work or have bought materials on your behalf.  Is the VAT 20% of the whole bill or only part?

Yep that's my understanding (having been a VAT-registered trader myself for 20 years when I was working).
The VAT was 20% of the whole bill.

I agree that this is rather rum. It may just turn out that the trader is vat registered but doesn’t know the rules for drawing up vat invoices. 

If he isn’t vat registered, then he could have quoted you £4320, rather than £3600+vat. It’s the same cost to you, so I’m not sure how he benefits by pretending to be vat registered? 

You can simply ask him for his vat number.  What will you do if he doesn’t have one? Refuse to pay the £720?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

itm2 said:

The VAT was 20% of the whole bill.

VAT is 20% on the net so 16.6% of the whole bill  

Mistake the roofer has made is charging £3600+ VAT, they should have just told OP it was £4320 and then there wouldn't be any questions. 

grumpy_codger

GDB2222 said:

itm2 said:

savergrant said:

itm2 said:

The invoice shows VAT of £720. I've just seen that, according to their Checkatrade profile, they are not VAT registered. So I would say that it is very much my business???

As I understand it you pay VAT, the trader collects it on behalf of HMRC. If the trader has told you that you need to pay VAT but they are not registered then they have taken money under false pretences. I suggest you contact the business and ask them for their VAT registration number as you are querying the VAT charged by them.  It may be that they have subcontracted the work or have bought materials on your behalf.  Is the VAT 20% of the whole bill or only part?

Yep that's my understanding (having been a VAT-registered trader myself for 20 years when I was working).
The VAT was 20% of the whole bill.

... 

If he isn’t vat registered, then he could have quoted you £4320, rather than £3600+vat. It’s the same cost to you, so I’m not sure how he benefits by pretending to be vat registered? 

... 

Many tradespeople like giving you a smaller amount to get your attention when you talk to them and then innocently adding VAT in the formal quotation or the final invoice.
They are crooks - private customers want to know only the total amount and don't need to know anything about VAT. 

Section62

grumpy_codger said:

GDB2222 said:

itm2 said:

savergrant said:

itm2 said:

The invoice shows VAT of £720. I've just seen that, according to their Checkatrade profile, they are not VAT registered. So I would say that it is very much my business???

As I understand it you pay VAT, the trader collects it on behalf of HMRC. If the trader has told you that you need to pay VAT but they are not registered then they have taken money under false pretences. I suggest you contact the business and ask them for their VAT registration number as you are querying the VAT charged by them.  It may be that they have subcontracted the work or have bought materials on your behalf.  Is the VAT 20% of the whole bill or only part?

Yep that's my understanding (having been a VAT-registered trader myself for 20 years when I was working).
The VAT was 20% of the whole bill.

... 

If he isn’t vat registered, then he could have quoted you £4320, rather than £3600+vat. It’s the same cost to you, so I’m not sure how he benefits by pretending to be vat registered? 

... 

Many tradespeople like giving you a smaller amount to get your attention when you talk to them and then innocently adding VAT in the formal quotation or the final invoice.
They are crooks - private customers want to know only the total amount and don't need to know anything about VAT. 

I'd want to know.... because if you blindly accept a quote for £3600 you could find yourself with a larger bill if the trader becomes VAT registered between quotation and completion.  We can have a lengthy discussion whether the customer or trader would be legally responsible for paying the VAT difference in that situation, but the hassle of having that argument with the trader could be avoided by requesting clarity over VAT status and VAT inclusion at the time of quotation.

I'd also wonder whether a trader who isn't VAT registered has the commitment to the job to give me the outcome I want, or if they are more of a hobbyist odd job person.

savergrant

Section62 said:

grumpy_codger said:

GDB2222 said:

itm2 said:

savergrant said:

itm2 said:

The invoice shows VAT of £720. I've just seen that, according to their Checkatrade profile, they are not VAT registered. So I would say that it is very much my business???

As I understand it you pay VAT, the trader collects it on behalf of HMRC. If the trader has told you that you need to pay VAT but they are not registered then they have taken money under false pretences. I suggest you contact the business and ask them for their VAT registration number as you are querying the VAT charged by them.  It may be that they have subcontracted the work or have bought materials on your behalf.  Is the VAT 20% of the whole bill or only part?

Yep that's my understanding (having been a VAT-registered trader myself for 20 years when I was working).
The VAT was 20% of the whole bill.

... 

If he isn’t vat registered, then he could have quoted you £4320, rather than £3600+vat. It’s the same cost to you, so I’m not sure how he benefits by pretending to be vat registered? 

... 

Many tradespeople like giving you a smaller amount to get your attention when you talk to them and then innocently adding VAT in the formal quotation or the final invoice.
They are crooks - private customers want to know only the total amount and don't need to know anything about VAT. 

I'd want to know.... because if you blindly accept a quote for £3600 you could find yourself with a larger bill if the trader becomes VAT registered between quotation and completion.  We can have a lengthy discussion whether the customer or trader would be legally responsible for paying the VAT difference in that situation, but the hassle of having that argument with the trader could be avoided by requesting clarity over VAT status and VAT inclusion at the time of quotation.

I'd also wonder whether a trader who isn't VAT registered has the commitment to the job to give me the outcome I want, or if they are more of a hobbyist odd job person.

Iirc the limit for vat registration is around £85k pa, so depending who buys the materials it is quite possible to make a decent living and even employ an assistant without needing to be vat registered.
As a customer given the choice between two quotes, 4000 or 3600 +vat I'd be going for the 4000.