Interesting article from the Beeb

boingy

Article about will fraud:

How fake-will fraudsters steal millions from the dead - BBC News

mebu60

In the first example I'd be very interested to learn the age of the sisters, where they lived and where the aunt lived and where she was in a care home. They were allegedly upset to hear about the death of an aunt they hadn't seen since childhood or seemingly had any contact with, hearing about her demise only from a third party. Whilst it doesn't excuse the potential fraud it's not a great example to lead with in terms of garnering sympathy for the 'victims'. No doubt there's a myriad of unexplained reasons why they never saw the aunt as adults but it rather distracted my thoughts from the focus of the article and I didn't make it much further.

Keep_pedalling

The probate system really is not fit for purpose, but a better system will cost and will undoubtedly lead to longer delays in getting probate. Unfortunately no one wants to pay more or wait longer. 

Where fraud is suspected it goes beyond a civil case and should be investigated by the police, but they will always try to palm it of as a civil matter. The main problem here though is that far too many people simply won’t make a will and it seems the more important that is for the individuals situation the less likely it is that they will make one. 

kipsterno1

Makes storing a will with the HMCTS seem like a sensible move.

Brie

kipsterno1 said:

Makes storing a will with the HMCTS seem like a sensible move.

but if a new will revokes any old ones what good does it do to have the proper one stored?

Keep_pedalling

Brie said:

kipsterno1 said:

Makes storing a will with the HMCTS seem like a sensible move.

but if a new will revokes any old ones what good does it do to have the proper one stored?

It would make forging a new one more difficult. An earlier will signed by the testator and witnessed by a solicitor is going to look very different than a later one with forged unmatched signatures. 

poppystar

Isn’t the issue though that these are people who are alone and may not have had anyone to give any information on their Will to? Can heir hunters or anyone actually approach the HMCTS storage with a general enquiry - my understanding was you would have to have the reference number before the Will could be accessed or even before they would admit to having a Will. So the Probate Office would not automatically have anything to compare the one sent to them with. It’s great the Will is safe but there doesn’t really appear to be any way of ensuring it is checked whether there is a Will being stored. 

What did amaze me with the stories is that these Wills could get through Probate given how often on here we hear of Probate being delayed while witnesses are contacted etc. Yet in the one case there had been no check that the address given for the executor existed when the Will was purportedly written. It also seemed that there were no checks on whether an estate really was under the threshold. 

I’m still not exactly sure what the Probate Office actually does with most applications.  Do they just accept what is on the forms and only raise issues where a signature is unclear or the pages of the Will aren’t stapled? I agree with the article that the old system of face to face submission was far preferable in many respects. 

RAS

kipsterno1 said:

Makes storing a will with the HMCTS seem like a sensible move.

It make writing a will seem like a very sensible move, since the perpetrators seem have used the bon vacantia list to target estates. 

It doesn't solve the problem of elderly people marrying unexpected people and negating their will.

boingy

I wondered whether they need to restrict access to the list but they have currently gone one step further and taken the whole list offline temporarily whilst they figure out how to prevent or reduce the fraudulent usage!

Maybe they need to introduce a registration and vetting process for anyone accessing the list. It would not be perfect but probably better then no safeguards at all.

List of unclaimed estates taken offline after BBC investigation - BBC News

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EasySolution

RAS said:

It doesn't solve the problem of elderly people marrying unexpected people and negating their will.

This is one of the proposed reforms in the May 2025 Law Commission reports so likely to become law sometime next year.

Savvy_Sue

mebu60 said:

In the first example I'd be very interested to learn the age of the sisters, where they lived and where the aunt lived and where she was in a care home. They were allegedly upset to hear about the death of an aunt they hadn't seen since childhood or seemingly had any contact with, hearing about her demise only from a third party. Whilst it doesn't excuse the potential fraud it's not a great example to lead with in terms of garnering sympathy for the 'victims'. No doubt there's a myriad of unexplained reasons why they never saw the aunt as adults but it rather distracted my thoughts from the focus of the article and I didn't make it much further.

There was a programme on Radio 4 this morning which explained it all: IIRC Mum (aunt's sister) died when they were quite young; aunt fell out with Dad (because she didn't approve of how he was bringing them up) and all contact ceased. Aunt then became reclusive at end of life. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002f9bn if you want to listen.