New agent taking over management of existing flat tenancy - is another deposit payable?

NormalforNorfolk

I have a sibling who has lived in their rental flat for 25 years. The first 20 years of their tenancy they were working but unfortunately 5 years ago they were made redundant and have not worked since due to long term health issues.  They are therefore on UC but have continued to be able to remain in their flat, albeit their benefit only just covers the bills but have remained a good tenant and always met their rent payment. The management of the tenancy has changed hands a couple of times over the years including this year.  My sibling has been sent a new Tenancy Agreement by the agent which has increased the rent by £150 per month and also states there is a deposit of £980.  My sibling is unable to afford the increase so we are going to cover it because we do not want them to become homeless (they already get the maximum amount of housing benefit allowed which doesn’t cover the existing rent).  My question relates to the deposit - when my sibling started renting the flat 25 years ago, a deposit was paid, So do they have to now pay this new deposit - they definitely do not have the money to pay this, and we don’t have just shy of £1000 to pay it either.

HampshireH

I think you need to find out where the current deposit is.

I would be very careful about signing a new tenancy after 25 years. I would suggest you don't sign that until your complete comfortable (if at all)

What type of tenancy does your sibling currently have (it may have far more rights than the new one)

There is no need to issue a new tenancy to them just because the landlord changed and there is no need to issue a new tenancy for a rent increase. 

eddddy

In simple terms, your sibling signed a tenancy agreement (or entered into an implied tenancy agreement) 25 years ago.

Your sibling should only sign a new tenancy agreement if the terms are better for your sibling, than the terms already agreed 25 years ago.

Obviously, your sibling shouldn't agree to sign anything that puts them in a worse position.

RHemmings

eddddy said:

In simple terms, your sibling signed a tenancy agreement (or entered into an implied tenancy agreement) 25 years ago.

Your sibling should only sign a new tenancy agreement if the terms are better for your sibling, than the terms already agreed 25 years ago.

Obviously, your sibling shouldn't agree to sign anything that puts them in a worse position.

Doing so will be slightly safer if/when S21 is abolished. In the meantime it's possible - no  idea how likely - if the landlord wants a different agreement that they can evict the tenant and get a new one on their preferred terms. 

The times I refused to sign a new agreement - I was never evicted. But, the OP's mileage may vary. 

theartfullodger

I can't think of any advantage to tenant of signing new tenancy: Don't do it!

So landlord hasn't changed, just agent?? Until & unless landlord writes to tenant instructing them to deal with new  agent tenant should continue to deal with landlord & old agent.

Best wishes & good luck.

saajan_12

What does "management have changed" mean? 

• If its a new landlord, then the existing tenancy agreement continues and the new landlord has to give their own address in writing before they can receive the rent. 
• If its a new agent, then nothing has to change. They can inform in writing, verified by the LL that there's new bank details to send the rent to. 
• If they just want the rent amount to change, they can serve a S13 notice and everything else stays the same. 

If you don't want to escalate the argument and the terms of the new agreement are acceptable, then its not necessarily a problem. However the deposit certainly doesn't get paid again and you can push back on topping up the deposit too. 

ExEstateAgent

I would also be asking for clarification that the LL or new agent is holding my original deposit. 

NormalforNorfolk

Thank you. It is just the agent managing the tenancy that has changed not the landlord/owner of the flat - we previously obtained a certificate from the land registry which showed the owners having bought the flat in 2001 and it is their name on the new agreement  The managing agent changed once before about 8 years ago and I don’t think a new agreement was issued or signed then.  Unfortunately I don’t think my sibling has a copy of the original tenancy agreement, he obviously did have one but can’t find it, but he says he knows he paid a £500 deposit when he first took up tenancy.   

RAS

It looks like your brother may have additional rights if the tenancy was created before 2007 and he hasn't signed a new one since. My guess is either the new agency can't find any documentation or they have and don't like it. 

The rules round tenancy deposit changed in 2007, so probably after your brother moved in? If he signed a new contract or his fixed term ended after 6 April 2007, it also needs to be registered in a scheme. Probably double check with Shelter?

And look for the tenancy agreement. Another tack might be to go to the local history library. Many have copies of historical electoral rolls. That may provide a date when your brother first registered at his current address? At least that gives you a ball park.

NormalforNorfolk

RAS that is really helpful thank you!

NormalforNorfolk

Sorry RAS, I have another question.  Presumably the Owner/Landlord would also have copies of the original agreement which was signed, If we cannot find the original agreement, is there any reason why we cannot request them to provide a copy?