Update and more help needed please. Executor issues.

swingaloo

I have updates to my original post and would be grateful for any help/insights please. Thank you.
Ive left the original question and added the update at the bottom.


My original question-
A person dies and has named one of his children as executor of his will.

The will divides the estate (property and cash) equally between 3 siblings and one grandchild. 

The property was abroad and has been sold and distributed between the 3 siblings and grandchild.

Probate was needed to be applied for in the UK as there was a sum of money in the bank in the UK (£44,000) and this figure was declared as being the 'Value of the Estate in England'.

Despite the will specifying that the the property and any cash was to be shared between the siblings/grandchild, the sibling who is the executor has claimed the money for himself. His reasoning is that because he dealt with his mothers finances in the UK as she lived abroad as well as being the executor the bank account was held in joint names and therefore he now is the rightful owner of any money in that account. (POA had not kicked in as the deceased was still managing her own money)

Now I know that if a joint account is opened and one person dies the money in that account belongs the remaining person but does that apply in this case? The money did belong to the mother but sibling helped with banking arrangements as parent was living abroad and so was addecto the account.

But, if the executor has applied for probate stating the £44,000 is part of the deceased estate does that override the fact that the account was joint?

The update- The account was not a joint one but the executor has now stated that most of the money in the account £41,500 actually belonged to them as it was money leant to the deceased to have various jobs done on the Spanish villa. . They claim to have proof of giving it to mother but the proof is not forthcoming and the executor lives at one end of the country and the other siblings the other end so not easy to pop round and ask to see it.

Now if it was to have the jobs done, why would the money still be sitting in the deceased mothers account as the work would have been long since paid for, and why, if the mother had borrowed the money would she not have given it back to him when she had it rather than leave it sat in an account.

There were massive fees to be paid when the property in Spain was sold along with funeral expenses which the executor has split and taken from each sibling and grandchild's share of the money from the villa sale.
There was already money which would have covered the fees etc in the UK bank account which no-one knew about (other than the executor) and the fees should have been paid from that. On receipt of the villa money each of the beneficiaries paid almost £3000 each to the executor for these expenses whilst unbeknown to all of  them there was already money in the bank.

This has only come to light because one of the siblings applied for a copy of the probate.

Executor says they have proof of lending the money but the siblings think that is highly unlikely but don't know what to do now to sort this out. They should each have got almost £11,000 and instead have been swindled out of that and paid the executor another 3000 each for the bills incurred. 

2 of the siblings don't want a family fall out and as the value of the villa in Spain was not that great they did not receive a massive pay out and feel that they don't want to spend a lot of the money they got fighting for the other money they should have received if that makes sense.

The executor is refusing to provide the proof they say they have and is now at the stage of refusing any discussion playing the victim and pleading shock that anyone should think badly of him.

Any suggestions as to the best way forward please?

Keep_pedalling

If it was a joint account the executor would not need probate, so it sounds like it was not a joint account.

DullGreyGuy

swingaloo said:

The money did belong to the mother but sibling helped with banking arrangements as parent was living abroad and so was addecto the account.

But, if the executor has applied for probate stating the £44,000 is part of the deceased estate does that override the fact that the account was joint?

If they were added to the account as a joint account holder then legally the money is owned 100% by each of them. Alternatively if they were just granted third party management of the account then the account was fully in the deceased's name and it goes through the will/probate process

swingaloo

Thank you so much for those replies. The executor did need probate so it looks like a bit of lying is going on.

swingaloo

DullGreyGuy said:

swingaloo said:

The money did belong to the mother but sibling helped with banking arrangements as parent was living abroad and so was addecto the account.

But, if the executor has applied for probate stating the £44,000 is part of the deceased estate does that override the fact that the account was joint?

If they were added to the account as a joint account holder then legally the money is owned 100% by each of them. Alternatively if they were just granted third party management of the account then the account was fully in the deceased's name and it goes through the will/probate process

Im assuming from the answer from Keep-Pedalling that it must not be a joint account as Probate would not have been needed if that was the case?. I cant see any reason to apply for probate unless it was needed to access the money.

When the Spanish solicitor was dealing with sale of the villa and distributing the money from the sale they asked for mums financial details and they had statements from the Spanish bank account  which had next to nothing in it so probate was only needed for the money in the English account which according to the executor was a only couple of hundred pounds. Its only since getting a copy of the will and probate that it has been discovered that £44,000 was sitting in the English bank.

The executor had told the other siblings that he had to apply for probate because of the villa in Spain but that was not even mentioned on the English probate application. He has kept the £44.000 very quiet but now our sister has a copy of the probate its time to tackle the executor but I just wanted to be sure we were on solid ground before doing so.