Court claim defence query – Scotland/England

davethespidermonkey

Afternoon all,

I've done my best to read through the newbie thread and dig around for advice, but I'm having difficulty understanding whether I can mount a defence as instructed in the newbies thread in my case. Please be patient when responding as I've found it very difficult and somewhat confusing wading through all of the information in the thread! I've tried to include all the relevant information here.

In February I received the first in the chain of letters from dcbl on behalf of Euro Car Parks Ltd, for a contravention back in August 2023 in Scotland with the standard £170 fine. Very stupidly not only did I overstay my time when I parked there, I wasn't actually going to those shops but elsewhere.

In the interim I moved to England and have just received the claim forms from the county court. In all the stress of things I did not write to request proof of contravention. I also could not complain/appeal to the landowner as I hadn't actually attended the shops. I did request for my old address to be removed from databases as instructed, as I think the initial letters must have gone to my old address.

I've tried to read as much as I can on the newbie thread about the defense process. What I'd like to know is if I can actually defend against this – I know it's likely I can't have it thrown out as I did contravene the rules. However, what is the best I could hope for, lowering the penalty to a more reasonable amount? If so, does any part of the typical process change because I am now living in England? If anyone could advise what I could do next I'd be very grateful!

The issue date of the claim form was 24th of this month. The total claimed is now £280.36. I have not responded to this claim yet. Below is the sign from the car park, if it helps at all. Thanks in advance!

Gr1pr

Let's unravel this

Was the vehicle registered in Scotland when the incident happened   ?

I presume that the location of the incident was also in Scotland  ?

There was no £170 and no fine either 

ECP would have issued the original NTK PCN letter at £100, as seen on the picture of the sign, to the Scottish address

dcbl added on the extra £70, hence why their fairy story settlement figure was £170, but that extra £70 is generally thrown out,  so if you lost in an English civil court then a likely total to pay is more like £212, not £280.36

My thoughts are whether this case should be under the Scottish simple procedures system,  so a jurisdiction issue,  or whether you defend in an English court based on POFA2012 not applying in Scotland,  so no keeper liability etc

The different nations and different laws complicate matters,  so do nothing yet, wait for a better reply based on those issues 

Nellymoser

Although you are resident in England now the alleged event happened in Scotland when you were resident in Scotland.

I'm not sure if they can make a claim in a English court for this. ? it should have been in Scotland. Wait for someone with more knowledge to advise.

Tell us who filed the claim and post image here of the Particulars of Claim (left side of claim form) after covering your reg no.

davethespidermonkey

Nellymoser said:

Although you are resident in England now the alleged event happened in Scotland when you were resident in Scotland.

I'm not sure if they can make a claim in a English court for this. ? it should have been in Scotland. Wait for someone with more knowledge to advise.

Tell us who filed the claim and post image here of the Particulars of Claim (left side of claim form) after covering your reg no.

Thanks for your response. I've attached the particulars of claim image. The claimant is Euro Car Parks limited (filed by DCB legal?). 

davethespidermonkey

Gr1pr said:

Let's unravel this

Was the vehicle registered in Scotland when the incident happened   ?

I presume that the location of the incident was also in Scotland  ?

There was no £170 and no fine either 

ECP would have issued the original NTK PCN letter at £100, as seen on the picture of the sign, to the Scottish address

dcbl added on the extra £70, hence why their fairy story settlement figure was £170, but that extra £70 is generally thrown out,  so if you lost in an English civil court then a likely total to pay is more like £212, not £280.36

My thoughts are whether this case should be under the Scottish simple procedures system,  so a jurisdiction issue,  or whether you defend in an English court based on POFA2012 not applying in Scotland,  so no keeper liability etc

The different nations and different laws complicate matters,  so do nothing yet, wait for a better reply based on those issues 

Thanks for your reply, I'll await other responses before doing anything else.

Nellymoser

DCB LEGAL are being rather evasive as to the site in the POC "a West End Retail Park"

West end where? Not even a postcode or the retail park name.

davethespidermonkey

Nellymoser said:

DCB LEGAL are being rather evasive as to the site in the POC "a West End Retail Park"

West end where? Not even a postcode or the retail park name.

Yes, there's no postcode mentioned but to clarify, somewhat confusingly the name of the retail park is just "West End Retail Park".

Castle

Nellymoser said:

DCB LEGAL are being rather evasive as to the site in the POC "a West End Retail Park"

West end where? Not even a postcode or the retail park name.

I'd suggest that has been done deliberately in order to avoid stating a Scottish location.

Fruitcake

I am not a legal, but I think this might be a case where you should dispute the jurisdiction since the alleged event and keeper's address were in Scotland at the time of the material time.

I think you should also state that the claim should be struck out in its entirety because it does not specify  the precise location where the alleged event took place.

As already mentioned, see what the more court savvy posters have to say.

Nellymoser

Oh I see the name of the park is actually
'West End Retail Park'.

kryten3000

Regardless of the location of the keeper, the incident took place in Scotland so there is no keeper liability for the Claimant to rely on.  Since this is Euro Car Parks and DCB Legal then the case will be discontinued regardless.