Floor plan reconfiguration advice

Nnenne1

Section62 said:

Nnenne1 said:

Thanks everyone that’s helped me so far. Apparently, upstairs flat owner is nice and would give permission for door entrance to be next to theirs. 

To ask formally, agent wans to see rough plan of this. Anything else I need to be aware of please, should solicitor write it into contract for instance?

Below are videos of the area that needs knocking through, it sounded hollow.  

https://imgur.com/a/i5TPvxc the 3rd video is clearer, if you scroll down.

What are your opinions please, before I start spending money on getting an architect to draw up plans for upstairs. 

The ground floor plan for the upstairs flat shows a layout which is different to the ground floor flat's.  This would suggest the (arrowed) wall next to stairs up to the first floor flat (the one you are measuring?) goes into their hall, not to the porch area.  You need to check why the plans have this difference.

I see what you mean, perhaps, this was what they were trying to recreate with that plan. I’d imagine, their stairs, goes directly up, without sticking into downstairs flat. 

Nnenne1

Albermarle said:

Is the flat a leasehold.? If so the freeholder could object to proposed changes, especially if they are quite significant.

It’s a share of freehold with the gist I’m buying and the co freeholder apparently is open to granting permission. So agent asking me for plan to give him, so they can formally ask him for permission. 

However, I’m not sure if that space is too small for a main entrance. 

Section62

Nnenne1 said:

Section62 said:

Nnenne1 said:

Thanks everyone that’s helped me so far. Apparently, upstairs flat owner is nice and would give permission for door entrance to be next to theirs. 

To ask formally, agent wans to see rough plan of this. Anything else I need to be aware of please, should solicitor write it into contract for instance?

Below are videos of the area that needs knocking through, it sounded hollow.  

https://imgur.com/a/i5TPvxc the 3rd video is clearer, if you scroll down.

What are your opinions please, before I start spending money on getting an architect to draw up plans for upstairs. 

The ground floor plan for the upstairs flat shows a layout which is different to the ground floor flat's.  This would suggest the (arrowed) wall next to stairs up to the first floor flat (the one you are measuring?) goes into their hall, not to the porch area.  You need to check why the plans have this difference.

I see what you mean, perhaps, this was what they were trying to recreate with that plan. I’d imagine, their stairs, goes directly up, without sticking into downstairs flat. 

I puzzled over that in the original pictures, and concluded it was the angled bit circled in green -

Assuming their front door opens inwards as shown on the plan (not outwards into the porch area) then there must be some kind of hallway behind the front door - otherwise it wouldn't be possible to open the door as it would hit the bottom stair.  Building regs would also require a 'landing' at the bottom of the stairs, rather than the door leading onto the first step.

The question is then whether the hallway is as shown on the plan, or is only the width of the staircase.  On balance I think it is something like the plan, otherwise it means the estate agent imagined the shape of the hallway, plus without the larger area it would be difficult/awkward to use the door - coming in to/out of the the flat you really need to be able to stand to the side so you can close/open the door.  Unfortunately I couldn't find an EA picture of this area, so you'll need to check it with the upstairs flat person.

Nnenne1

Section62 said:

Nnenne1 said:

Section62 said:

Nnenne1 said:

Thanks everyone that’s helped me so far. Apparently, upstairs flat owner is nice and would give permission for door entrance to be next to theirs. 

To ask formally, agent wans to see rough plan of this. Anything else I need to be aware of please, should solicitor write it into contract for instance?

Below are videos of the area that needs knocking through, it sounded hollow.  

https://imgur.com/a/i5TPvxc the 3rd video is clearer, if you scroll down.

What are your opinions please, before I start spending money on getting an architect to draw up plans for upstairs. 

The ground floor plan for the upstairs flat shows a layout which is different to the ground floor flat's.  This would suggest the (arrowed) wall next to stairs up to the first floor flat (the one you are measuring?) goes into their hall, not to the porch area.  You need to check why the plans have this difference.

I see what you mean, perhaps, this was what they were trying to recreate with that plan. I’d imagine, their stairs, goes directly up, without sticking into downstairs flat. 

I puzzled over that in the original pictures, and concluded it was the angled bit circled in green -

Assuming their front door opens inwards as shown on the plan (not outwards into the porch area) then there must be some kind of hallway behind the front door - otherwise it wouldn't be possible to open the door as it would hit the bottom stair.  Building regs would also require a 'landing' at the bottom of the stairs, rather than the door leading onto the first step.

The question is then whether the hallway is as shown on the plan, or is only the width of the staircase.  On balance I think it is something like the plan, otherwise it means the estate agent imagined the shape of the hallway, plus without the larger area it would be difficult/awkward to use the door - coming in to/out of the the flat you really need to be able to stand to the side so you can close/open the door.  Unfortunately I couldn't find an EA picture of this area, so you'll need to check it with the upstairs flat person.

EAs often get plans wrong, this plan, has to be wrong, because that bit sticking out, isn't inside upstairs flat and isn't that large too. to accommodate my new door, i'd need to straighten that bit and lose some of the space in the current livingroom, which i'm fine with. 

Furthermore, the new entrance sounded like a stud wall, when the agent knocked on it, to see if it was structural. The neighbour who was renting came out as thought, someone was knocking on the door. It was my sister that took the measurements for me, so i'll ask, if she briefly saw their entrance and how the door opens. 

Section62

Nnenne1 said:

Section62 said:

EAs often get plans wrong, this plan, has to be wrong, because that bit sticking out, isn't inside upstairs flat and isn't that large too. to accommodate my new door, i'd need to straighten that bit and lose some of the space in the current livingroom, which i'm fine with.

I agree EA's get plans wrong - there's two plans here and they do not match.  The question is how much each plan is wrong by.

I still think the upstairs flat's plan must have an element of truth to it - in other words there is something (e.g. the upstairs 'hallway') between the wall you were measuring and the wall with the shelves on it in the porch pictured below.

Those shelves go right up to the corner with the angled side wall.  Without measurements I'm guessing, but visually the arrow on the left (representing the width of this wall) are significantly narrower that the arrow on the right representing the door width.  Standard doors are usually 30" wide, so if this is a standard door then the wall on the left is narrower than that - perhaps between 22" to 24".

The measurement you've taken on what you think is the other side is 34" - so on the face of it, the wall in this picture can't be the other side of the wall you were measuring.

Nnenne1 said:

Furthermore, the new entrance sounded like a stud wall, when the agent knocked on it, to see if it was structural.

Knocking on walls doesn't tell you if they are structural or not.  The agent ought to know this.

Nnenne1 said:

The neighbour who was renting came out as thought, someone was knocking on the door. It was my sister that took the measurements for me, so i'll ask, if she briefly saw their entrance and how the door opens. 

I'd think for someone upstairs, knocking on any of the walls around this 'hallway' would sound like a knock on the door.

Let us know what your sister remember seeing - TBH you may need to go back and ask the upstairs neighbour if you can take some measurements in their hallway.

Also, bear in mind if it was really easy to put the entrance doors side by side then whoever did the original conversion would probably have done that to make the downstairs flat more attractive.

Nnenne1

Section62 said:

Nnenne1 said:

Section62 said:

EAs often get plans wrong, this plan, has to be wrong, because that bit sticking out, isn't inside upstairs flat and isn't that large too. to accommodate my new door, i'd need to straighten that bit and lose some of the space in the current livingroom, which i'm fine with.

I agree EA's get plans wrong - there's two plans here and they do not match.  The question is how much each plan is wrong by.

I still think the upstairs flat's plan must have an element of truth to it - in other words there is something (e.g. the upstairs 'hallway') between the wall you were measuring and the wall with the shelves on it in the porch pictured below.

Those shelves go right up to the corner with the angled side wall.  Without measurements I'm guessing, but visually the arrow on the left (representing the width of this wall) are significantly narrower that the arrow on the right representing the door width.  Standard doors are usually 30" wide, so if this is a standard door then the wall on the left is narrower than that - perhaps between 22" to 24".

The measurement you've taken on what you think is the other side is 34" - so on the face of it, the wall in this picture can't be the other side of the wall you were measuring.

Nnenne1 said:

Furthermore, the new entrance sounded like a stud wall, when the agent knocked on it, to see if it was structural.

Knocking on walls doesn't tell you if they are structural or not.  The agent ought to know this.

Nnenne1 said:

The neighbour who was renting came out as thought, someone was knocking on the door. It was my sister that took the measurements for me, so i'll ask, if she briefly saw their entrance and how the door opens. 

I'd think for someone upstairs, knocking on any of the walls around this 'hallway' would sound like a knock on the door.

Let us know what your sister remember seeing - TBH you may need to go back and ask the upstairs neighbour if you can take some measurements in their hallway.

Also, bear in mind if it was really easy to put the entrance doors side by side then whoever did the original conversion would probably have done that to make the downstairs flat more attractive.

Conversion was done 40 years ago, the outside measure my doesn’t match the inside of the one I’m buying because the inside of mine eases into the outside measurement. To rectify this, I’d need to give up parts of my inside space to square it up I think. 

Neigbour’s  door will swing inside I reckon, look at this pic, as there’s something stopping it from swinging out.

i just can’t see, how their floor plan of the stairs can be right. 

Edit: maybe they’re both right and there’s a box off somewhere, which is the bit space next to their stairs. Perhaps to use to hang coats etc. I’ll knock on their door and ask.  

Nnenne1

this is an unconverted neighbours house, if similar, can you see if it possible for upstairs to have a space downstairs?

Nnenne1

quick update, went this morning and knocked oon upstairs flat, they were lovely and let me in to see the entrance. I didn't take a pic as didn't want to be rude, however, what i dreaded is the truth. There's a boxed out corner where they put shoes and hang coats and unless they landlord sell that bit to downstairs flat, then a door can't be added there. I Have to pull out of the purchase of the flat, sadly.

Section62

Nnenne1 said:

quick update, went this morning and knocked oon upstairs flat, they were lovely and let me in to see the entrance. I didn't take a pic as didn't want to be rude, however, what i dreaded is the truth. There's a boxed out corner where they put shoes and hang coats and unless they landlord sell that bit to downstairs flat, then a door can't be added there. I Have to pull out of the purchase of the flat, sadly.

Genuinely sorry to hear that, the flat has potential.  But better to find out now, rather than when you were further into the process.

Nnenne1

Section62 said:

Nnenne1 said:

quick update, went this morning and knocked oon upstairs flat, they were lovely and let me in to see the entrance. I didn't take a pic as didn't want to be rude, however, what i dreaded is the truth. There's a boxed out corner where they put shoes and hang coats and unless they landlord sell that bit to downstairs flat, then a door can't be added there. I Have to pull out of the purchase of the flat, sadly.

Genuinely sorry to hear that, the flat has potential.  But better to find out now, rather than when you were further into the process.

Thanks Section62, you're right, and it was your probing and asking questions that made me get up this morning and drive there to conclusively find out.  The agent said i could add a door there and co freeholder would give permission. 
I could've proceeded, completed and found out, when it was too late. So thanks, once again.