How to approach aunt about potentially appointing a power of attorney

N6xxy

Long story but would be great for any advice.

My aunt (uncle was blood relative) is 85 and lives alone. My mum, myself and my two sisters are close to aunt and always have been and go visit as often as we can but always at least once a week. Aunt has remaining blood relatives who don't bother to visit (live abroad or very far) but will in the last 5 years check in once or twice a year, usually around Christmas.

Our uncle (my mum's side) passed away 4 years ago and  recently our aunt has been adamant about moving into a care home and has started to become obsessive about clearly all of uncle's things... He has collections of small cars, stamps and coins but they are all away in boxes very well organised. They don't need getting rid of and we would be mortified if they were. I don't actually think she would move but is obsessed about how she can't with all these things (the things she talks of are the smallest things she'd have to worry about!)

The other day when i was round aunt's she took a phone call and i didn't like the questions she was being asked, about whether she was in control of her finances and there were requests for money to pay for their service. I kept asking who it was an aunt was adamant it was her insurance and she knew who it was. Caller heard someone was in the background and suggested they call back later and swiftly put down the phone. I took that number and put it into google which said it was a scam call for white goods etc. Aunt adamant its her insurance and she paid them to renew last week. I kept stressing that she was never to pay anything over the phone and i would happily help her pay anything she needs by going to her policy documents and using that verified number. she assured me she was listening but i'm not convinced 

Yesterday aunt showing us her jewelry items and insisting she needs to sell it all as she doesn't need it and no-one will want it when she's gone. My mum and sisters kept urging her to leave it where it is, she doesn't need the money, they are not causing any harm where they are and she needs to write down who to leave items to.... again kept repeating she was going to sell it. She kept saying everyone would rather the money, and we kept saying no they/we would'nt! We also found out yesterday that she has sold some of her really nice pieces and our uncles personalized bracelet etc that he always wore to a pawn broker....because 'they were good to no-one'. She won't tell us exactly what she sold as she knows we would be upset.

I am worried about her. She has always been soooo sentimental as was my uncle and i would never have for one moment thought she would be so blase about their possessions. I really want her to appoint a POA so that they can just check that random payments aren't coming out of her account etc.

Aside from this behavior and repeating things often there are no signs of any illness etc. Also because we are not her blood we don't have any standing etc. I have printed a letter of wishes in the hope she might write some bits down and it'll re-ignite the empathy and love of her things but i can't force her. She has a Will at the solicitors but other than that we know nothing and she's very reluctant to engage in conversation.

Any advice please. Thank you. 

mebu60

It's never easy but I believe an LPA is more important than a will, both finance and health. They can be done DIY for £82 each (plus you need to have a printer!). It's also vital to get them done while your aunt still has her faculties.

Could you possibly start by suggesting the health LPA so that you, your mum and sisters can advocate for her if she were to be admitted into hospital. Keep it relatively low key to begin with. Then if that gets traction introduce the suggestion of doing the finance one at the same time to keep things tidy / for convenience. You need to find some angle that makes her think it's sensible (to her) or even better that it's her idea. Good luck!  

Presumably none of you is an executor of the will (as far as you know!). 

itsthelittlethings

Can you spend a little bit more time with her? She is probably very lonely without your uncle. Age Concern might help or is there a local lunch club or similar?

Keep_pedalling

mebu60 said:

It's never easy but I believe an LPA is more important than a will, both finance and health. They can be done DIY for £82 each (plus you need to have a printer!). It's also vital to get them done while your aunt still has her faculties.

Could you possibly start by suggesting the health LPA so that you, your mum and sisters can advocate for her if she were to be admitted into hospital. Keep it relatively low key to begin with. Then if that gets traction introduce the suggestion of doing the finance one at the same time to keep things tidy / for convenience. You need to find some angle that makes her think it's sensible (to her) or even better that it's her idea. Good luck!  

Presumably none of you is an executor of the will (as far as you know!). 

It does not sound like this lady has children of her own so a will is probably very important, as is the LPA. One way to tackle it it to make your own wills and LPA and discus these with her with the suggestion that you do them together. 

mebu60

Keep_pedalling said:

mebu60 said:

It's never easy but I believe an LPA is more important than a will, both finance and health. They can be done DIY for £82 each (plus you need to have a printer!). It's also vital to get them done while your aunt still has her faculties.

Could you possibly start by suggesting the health LPA so that you, your mum and sisters can advocate for her if she were to be admitted into hospital. Keep it relatively low key to begin with. Then if that gets traction introduce the suggestion of doing the finance one at the same time to keep things tidy / for convenience. You need to find some angle that makes her think it's sensible (to her) or even better that it's her idea. Good luck!  

Presumably none of you is an executor of the will (as far as you know!). 

It does not sound like this lady has children of her own so a will is probably very important, as is the LPA. One way to tackle it it to make your own wills and LPA and discus these with her with the suggestion that you do them together. 

The OP states the aunt already has a will at the solicitors. 

Another thought, is there someone the aunt trusts who could be primed to put the thought of LPAs to the aunt so that it becomes her suggestion? But it needs to be that the aunt suggests it to you, not to the solicitor or worse some random stranger at the other end of the phone! 

Cairnpapple

Kathryn Mannix is a retired palliative care consultant and has a book called Listen which is about having what she calls tender conversations (others might call difficult conversations).

When it comes to talking to elders, she suggests that one pitfall is that you tell the elder what to do and it gets their back up. Instead, she recommends making it about your own worries, e.g. 'I'm worried that if you went into hospital and couldn't advocate for yourself we wouldn't know your wishes'. She has a lot of concrete recommendations about how to open the door to a conversation on a way that is likely to be productive. 

With regard to the personal belongings, it is not at all uncommon to want to dispose of belongings as an older person (see the popular Swedish Death Cleaning) and you might need to accept her doing that, even though you disagree with it. If there are particular items you want, it sounds like she may well be more open to you taking them now rather than waiting for her death? My aunt in her latter years would give me something every time I visited (often gifts that she had been given by my late mother) and I think she enjoyed the gift giving. Or perhaps a subterfuge if she will let you take them to 'donate them' or 'sell them'.

Edited to add: there's an example of Kathryn Mannix's approach (though more in a medical context) between 8:28 and 13:06 of https://youtu.be/eq8vXRNyr0I

Her book is more general and not limited to medical. 

itsthelittlethings

Also if she wants to go into a home, why not? She might be ready for that, or at least sheltered living. Why are you against it?

thegreenone

Perhaps next time you go to see Aunt, take a big, clear plastic box and ask her to put in the things she would like to take to the home, photos etc.  Leave the box on a table within easy reach.  Explain that it is very important that her precious things are set aside first. Photos of everything if you can and a check list.

Next step, another box/es to put in her late husband's things.  If she has filled it, take photos of everything in the box, on her table etc and say you will get them valued.  Do that and take the box back to her "waiting on selling".  More photos.

My theory and possibly mine alone, is that if you are seen to be helping her, she may be more open to the paperwork side.

powerspowers

The scammers is ringing alarm bells for me, older people are often reluctant to admit they have been scammed as they are scared of losing the ability to live independently. Could she have sold the items to cover the payments?  

Does your aunt receive a lot of calls? She may get more if she has engaged with fraudsters. True call blockers can block incoming calls but allow trusted numbers through. 

mebu60

powerspowers said:

The scammers is ringing alarm bells for me, older people are often reluctant to admit they have been scammed as they are scared of losing the ability to live independently. Could she have sold the items to cover the payments?  

Does your aunt receive a lot of calls? She may get more if she has engaged with fraudsters. True call blockers can block incoming calls but allow trusted numbers through. 

That was going round in my head a lot too. Wondered if the OP may be able to get the aunt to change her phone number then only give the new number out on a need-to-have basis. Sounds straightforward but I suspect might not be that easy given other issues that already exist with assisting the aunt. 

thegreenone

powerspowers said:

The scammers is ringing alarm bells for me, older people are often reluctant to admit they have been scammed as they are scared of losing the ability to live independently. Could she have sold the items to cover the payments?  

Does your aunt receive a lot of calls? She may get more if she has engaged with fraudsters. True call blockers can block incoming calls but allow trusted numbers through. 

Definitely.   We got one and then my mum one after she, thankfully,  saw through a scam call.  She called 999 after the call and they put her through to 101 and Surrey Police set her up with a password she could use if she ever felt in danger.  They also visited Mum and she asked for the password through door and gave her advice on scammers.