What Are Our Rights Regarding Neighbour's Polluting Wood Fired Hot Tub?

WIAWSNB

fallen121 said:

WIAWSNB said:

Hi Fallen.

You need to record these instances when smoke visibly comes over and in to your property. I mean videos.
You need a detailed log - dates, times, extent - accurate descriptions, and not words like 'spewing'.

We suspect that next door has friends in the council, as they gave us a 3 week window to report and during that period the property was not let out at all. We did submit some logs, but they fell outside the specified 3 week window by which time they had closed the original complaint and wrote to say that we would need to raise a new complaint with "the duty officer" (not their office) and begin the process again. They conveniently forgot to supply the email of said "duty officer" so we wrote back to ask and they did not reply. We seem to be constantly trying to play "catch up". We can't go out in case we miss the hot tub being fired up as their spreadsheet requires us to submit start and end times.

I'd missed that you were in Scotland, but have no idea if that makes a difference.
I've had ongoing issues with a neighbour where he uses fires to harass, and 20 years ago, when we first moved in, what you've described above was the council's initial response - they'd send out an inspector on three random occasions to try and catch him in the act... Needless to say, I didn't bother.
He resumed his 'oleish behaviour a couple of months back, however, so I recorded each one - smoke coming over our wall, a description of each event (what the fumes smelled if, and intensity), and finally my approach to the old git. 9 video clips, a short but concise and unemotive description of each, and an overview of what's been going on for 20+ years.
All submitted to a helpful guy in the council, and I'm anticipating a positive and successful response. I'll certainly be escalating it if not. 
So, produce a matter-of-fact, concisely detailed, chrono report, accompanied with solid evidence. 
And part of this evidence could/should include you panning the camera over your particulate meter and recording the reading. Make the evidence concrete and unimpeachable.
Try and also get an impartial witness, like someone visiting at the same time (I have a couple of builders from incidents a few years back).
If you do this and they remain unhelpful, then it's 'official complaint'. 
Get your local councillor involved too. Even see if they live nearby, and ask if they'd be happy to attend and witness the next time it's bad.

GDB2222

I imagine that going down the legal route could be quite costly and stressful. I would have thought that a couple of fans could be installed that waft the smoke back towards the other house and cool your gas canisters. This would hopefully solve your problem at minimal cost. 

You don't need hurricane force fans that cause a nuisance to the neighbours - however tempting that might be!

WIAWSNB

GDB2222 said:

I imagine that going down the legal route could be quite costly and stressful. I would have thought that a couple of fans could be installed that waft the smoke back towards the other house and cool your gas canisters. This would hopefully solve your problem at minimal cost. 

You can currently get really effective fans, such as the 'MyCarbon' range, which are whisper-quiet in operation.

Or second-hand ones on eBay with failed and rattling bearings.

I know which one I'd go for.

Murphybear

Newbie_John said:

As you've engaged in every possible way, I'd go for an option that will discourage people from booking it.. because of previous low ratings.

Get the dog and let it out every time it's on.
Or cats, chicken, goat.. whatever is noisy.
Have a BBQ right next to it making the romantic bath for two impossible.
Composting etc. as mentioned earlier.

Put 10 cameras pointing at fence 😉
Play cheesy music.

Chickens are a good idea, they can be very noisy especially if there is a cockerel crowing at dawn  . Speaking from experience.  You can get free eggs as well 

FreeBear

Murphybear said:

Newbie_John said:

As you've engaged in every possible way, I'd go for an option that will discourage people from booking it.. because of previous low ratings.

Get the dog and let it out every time it's on.
Or cats, chicken, goat.. whatever is noisy.
Have a BBQ right next to it making the romantic bath for two impossible.
Composting etc. as mentioned earlier.

Put 10 cameras pointing at fence 😉
Play cheesy music.

Chickens are a good idea, they can be very noisy especially if there is a cockerel crowing at dawn  . Speaking from experience.  You can get free eggs as well 

You won't get eggs from a cockerel though.....

Advocating noise & smells is unlikely to result in the hot tub being removed - The users are likely to only be staying for a few days at a time. As a result, it would result in a minor annoyance, and then they would move on. It is also possible that the (absent) owner could lodge a statutory nuisance complaint with the local council.

Herzlos

I think the approach, which I'm not advocating, is that it'll only take a few bad reviews for people to want to stay elsewhere especially if the hot tub is the big attraction. If there's no visitors, the hot tub isn't on and there's no smoke pollution. 

pinkshoes

Playing a trumpet is excellent those with asthma to help with breathing control.

Perhaps your child might like to learn? And practice lots on days when people are using the hot tub?

I'd find the camera very creepy. Can you put a very high trellis up to block it seeing into your garden. 

sheramber

 We have 42kg propane gas bottles next to the wall, 

I donlt think you can restrict what your neioghbour does in his pwn garden because you have gas bottles on your property.

WIAWSNB

sheramber said:

 We have 42kg propane gas bottles next to the wall, 
I donlt think you can restrict what your neioghbour does in his pwn garden because you have gas bottles on your property.

I think it's incumbent on the OP to lean over the fence and say to the tubbees, "Oh! That's a nice blaze you have going there! Um, did you know there were propane cylinders just this side of the fence, and they are......yup, feeling quite warm... MUST DASH!"

BikingBud

fallen121 said:

The issue we have is that the particulate level is environmental health, but they won't investigate domestic premises and point us at the council, who want to come out and observe the particulate readings. Except that these don't conveniently escalate at regular times during office hours when they can be observed by council officials. Who presumably would require adequate notice!

Fire brigade not interested. We have 42kg propane gas bottles next to the wall, which is another worry as not only is the hot tub driven by burning wood but the neighbour has now installed a patio heater right next to the gas bottles but because there's a lot of vagueness regarding minimum distances Fire Brigade referred us to Gas Safe who told us they only deal with improper installations of gas equipment. The fact that there could be a gas explosion seems to worry no-one. Round and round and round in circles whilst everyone points at everyone else.

Small claims court. We need to have cleaning receipts, so we need to spend money to attempt to claim it back and pay court fees, with no expectation that the neighbour would even respond, whereupon we then need to expend more money to have any judgement enforced (Scotland). 

Lots and lots and lots of regulations exist, but when push comes to shove nobody particularly keen to enforce them. All anybody ever does is point us in the direction of bodies who have already turned us away. We have to spend cash we don't really have to try and force the issue with no expectation of ever getting it back. And direct action very difficult when cameras are pointing in every direction. If we are caught on camera committing an offence such as lobbing anything over the wall I have no doubt enforcement will swing into action in that instance and we will be the ones being prosecuted.

Stinky solutions seem the most obvious and cheapest option, but we ourselves are then affected by this and can't then go out to our only outside space. And is very dependent on wind direction!

Very interested to understand why regulations are made and bodies created to enforce these regulations who then create complicated barriers to enforcement whilst everyone sits in offices drawing huge salaries and hiding behind chatbots and out of office autoreplies. It seems like a vast cottage industry designed to keep a lot of people ungainfully employed doing nothing except churning out standard template letters.

So who is providing the environmental protection services if not the council?

If you do not keep a record and go quiet they will see the case as lapsing and close it.

If there are significant gaps in the perceived nuisance, dates without records and evidence, then they are not sufficiently regular or persistent to actually meet the bar, nuisance-smoke-how-councils-deal-with-complaints:

How smoke complaints are assessed
To work out whether it’s a statutory nuisance, smoke is usually assessed by environmental health officers from the council. They can look at:

• the amount

• how often it happens and for how long

• how unreasonable the activity is (for example, smoke from an everyday activity like cooking is unlikely to be a statutory nuisance)

Without a compelling incidence log then your claim will be deemed to be lacking in evidence. 

Perhaps reopen the discussion with the EHOs and explain the current situation re-affirm that the use is intermittent but consider that the intermittent nature may mean that bullet 2 lacks sufficient detail for them to take any action. Try and work an effective plan with them and if you do not get any joy then you might wish to escalate within the council but it will need to be evidence based. Are they using un-seasoned logs? Perhaps you could raise this as a concern without causing excessive friction. 

I feel your grounds for complaint would be better if not an ABNB as homeowners would have a more regular pattern of usage to demonstrate toe extent of the nuisance.

EHOs are very limited and extremely busy, look at their remit, and with persistent downward pressure on council tax are frequently under- resourced, nobody sees what they achieve until things are missed.