Deed of Easement -

knittingnanny1102

I am looking to buy a property where the old septic tank was replaced with a  newly installed treatment plant.  This is shared with the neighboring property.  In the deeds there is referance to the amounts which need to be contributed to the maintenance etc and that access was granted to the neighbor 
However when they installed the new system it was relocated onto the neighbors land with the drainage pipes connecting into the existing system.  When this was done no new paperwork was drawn up to formalize this and to allow us access to the unit.  It has now been pointed out that a new deed of easement needs to be drawn up to cover this but my seller tells me that the neighbor will not be registering the deed and although agrees to the terms allowing access wants just a handshake agreement.  
I don't want to fall out with neighbors before we have even moved in but to me this does not sound good and something which needs doing properly. 
Should we walk away unless it can somehow be agreed formally 

WIAWSNB

The following is speculation, so needs to be handled with suitable caution.

This is clearly potentially messy, but shouldn't be. Ie, my opinion is that if the neighbour tried anything on - threatened to block or cut your sewer pipe, or impose additional levies - you would almost certainly ultimately win in court. But who the heck wants that hassle?!

I'm not even sure an indemnity policy would cover this, as all the involved parties clearly know about the situation? However, all the policy 'should' need to cover is the potential legal costs in your enforcing your rights, should the neighbour threaten to do anything silly. And this action should have a pretty obvious outcome and be an easy one for your legal side to win, so the neighbour would be incredibly silly to land themselves in costly shhh trying it on.

Do you have any understanding of why the neighbour is reluctant? Do you have the 'story' of why the ST location was changed for the TP's? If it all makes sense, then make sure you get a statement of truth from the vendor, to demonstrate what the agreement actually was. And if this neighbour could do the same - it's dead easy, so no good reason not to - you should be on pretty solid ground. If one refuses, then beware.

Is their reluctance to change the deeds due to simple cost? In which case, offer to go halves? (Or the vendor should...).

I think the neighbour would struggle to get away with doing anything silly, like blocking or cutting off your sewer pipe - that would be serious EH issues. Ditto if they tried to extort.

Do you have Legal Protection included in your current house policy? Phone them up for a chat? What about your conveyancing solicitor - what do they say?

And, what does your gut say, now you've presumably spoken to the vendor? Have you spoken to the neighbour?

knittingnanny1102

IAWSNB said:

The following is speculation, so needs to be handled with suitable caution.

This is clearly potentially messy, but shouldn't be. Ie, my opinion is that if the neighbour tried anything on - threatened to block or cut your sewer pipe, or impose additional levies - you would almost certainly ultimately win in court. But who the heck wants that hassle?!

I'm not even sure an indemnity policy would cover this, as all the involved parties clearly know about the situation? However, all the policy 'should' need to cover is the potential legal costs in your enforcing your rights, should the neighbour threaten to do anything silly. And this action should have a pretty obvious outcome and be an easy one for your legal side to win, so the neighbour would be incredibly silly to land themselves in costly shhh trying it on.

Do you have any understanding of why the neighbour is reluctant? Do you have the 'story' of why the ST location was changed for the TP's? If it all makes sense, then make sure you get a statement of truth from the vendor, to demonstrate what the agreement actually was. And if this neighbour could do the same - it's dead easy, so no good reason not to - you should be on pretty solid ground. If one refuses, then beware.

Is their reluctance to change the deeds due to simple cost? In which case, offer to go halves? (Or the vendor should...).

I think the neighbour would struggle to get away with doing anything silly, like blocking or cutting off your sewer pipe - that would be serious EH issues. Ditto if they tried to extort.

Do you have Legal Protection included in your current house policy? Phone them up for a chat? What about your conveyancing solicitor - what do they say?

And, what does your gut say, now you've presumably spoken to the vendor? Have you spoken to the neighbour?

Thanks for your comments.  You are exactly right who wants the hassle of all this.  I just know I want it all to be right and everyone knows where they are.  And also when I come to resell I don't want potential issues.  I understand it was relocated due to access issues and it was an easier job from the neighbours land.  My gut tells me there is no problem but you just don't know down the line who could purchase the other property and what issues could arise.  I think he just can't be bothered to get it registered or involve official solicitors or just being awkward.  My seller doesn't seem to think it a problem and my solicitor is looking at the issue now.  It just all feels wrong and not a great way to start in a new home and neighhood 

david29dpo

Been there done that. New people moved in and were awkward until we showed them the deed.
I have a shared tank and you MUST get this sorted. DO NOT buy without it

Section62

david29dpo said:

Been there done that. New people moved in and were awkward until we showed them the deed.
I have a shared tank and you MUST get this sorted. DO NOT buy without it

Agreed.  Arrangements for drainage, especially foul water, are something I'd always want to see in writing.  It protects both parties.  Someone made a decision to locate the new treatment plant in the neighbour's land rather than the vendors, so the legal agreement needs amending to reflect that.  I'd be suspicious of someone who (in these circumstances) refused to do more than shaking hands on the deal... it suggests they have a poor understanding of the law and what can go wrong, so I wouldn't want to rely on them doing the right thing if there was a problem in the future.

There would be a cost of getting the legal paperwork done properly, but compared to the cost of getting a new treatment plant installed the cost isn't that much.

I'm not sure indemnity insurance or legal protection will help much.  The legal position appears to be that the neighbour has a right to use the treatment facility on the vendors land and have the necessary access to it.  The vendor has the obligation to allow this.  With no legal agreement the vendor's rights are pretty limited.

WIAWSNB

If the vendor and neighbour are unwilling to sort this properly, would 'statements of truth' from each be a reasonable - and enforceable - compromise?

Dustyevsky

How long has the foul drainage been connected to the soakaway field? Regardless of where the treatment plant is, if you've used the soakaway pipes for 20 years or more, you must surely have an easement by prescription?

I'd still insist on formalising the new arrangement, though.

knittingnanny1102

Dustyevsky said:

How long has the foul drainage been connected to the soakaway field? Regardless of where the treatment plant is, if you've used the soakaway pipes for 20 years or more, you must surely have an easement by prescription?

I'd still insist on formalising the new arrangement, though.

The newly relocated treatment plant connects into the old pipework and runs to the watercourse which has been established for many years.  The treatment plant has just been moved over the fence as the installation was apparently easier.  The electric is hooked up to our property. There must be a section of our pipework which runs and connects in next-door which we don't have any rights over??!!  It's complicated 

knittingnanny1102

knittingnanny1102 said:

Dustyevsky said:

How long has the foul drainage been connected to the soakaway field? Regardless of where the treatment plant is, if you've used the soakaway pipes for 20 years or more, you must surely have an easement by prescription?

I'd still insist on formalising the new arrangement, though.

The newly relocated treatment plant connects into the old pipework and runs to the watercourse which has been established for many years.  The treatment plant has just been moved over the fence as the installation was apparently easier.  The electric is hooked up to our property. There must be a section of our pipework which runs and connects in next-door which we don't have any rights over??!!  It's complicated 

The newly located plant has only been there for 2years so I am not sure prescription right would apply??

Dustyevsky

knittingnanny1102 said:

knittingnanny1102 said:

Dustyevsky said:

How long has the foul drainage been connected to the soakaway field? Regardless of where the treatment plant is, if you've used the soakaway pipes for 20 years or more, you must surely have an easement by prescription?

I'd still insist on formalising the new arrangement, though.

The newly relocated treatment plant connects into the old pipework and runs to the watercourse which has been established for many years.  The treatment plant has just been moved over the fence as the installation was apparently easier.  The electric is hooked up to our property. There must be a section of our pipework which runs and connects in next-door which we don't have any rights over??!!  It's complicated 

The newly located plant has only been there for 2years so I am not sure prescription right would apply??

Not to it, but to the pipework emanating from it, which hasn't changed.