Domestic cleaning company refusing to pay for damage to our carpet

midsummer100

Hello 👋 
We renovated our house during the first 6 months of last year and everything is brand new. Beige wool carpets are not yet a year old.

Having not had a cleaner for ages we started with a new cleaning company with the instruction that were not looking for the fastest cleaner in the world, but the best cleaner, slow and methodical, who will take care of our hard-earned possessions.

I interviewed a few cleaning companies and made my choice 

The cleaner they sent started by telling me she was a quick cleaner. I again told her that wasn't my remit and I wanted slow and methodical.

First week, could tell she had scant attention to detail.
Second week she ran over the hoover wire, which broke the electrics in the hoover. Cleaning company were sympathetic and said they'd send the husband over to look at it. He never showed so I got the chap who's serviced my hoovers for years to rewire it.

3rd week, nothing broken, perhaps an improvement I thought - every week I'm having to remind her slow and methodical...

4th week. A couple of days before we were going away. The day we went away our pooch decided to eat a pen in the lounge. 🤦 There were small bits of black ink on the carpet by the time I found her. We Googled and a good carpet technician will be able to remove ink easily. We have a good carpet technician who is part of the family owned carpet business we bought the carpet from.

The cleaner came in early the afternoon we were coming home, and left early.

We got home and were surprised she wasn't there and there was no note.

We were tired and went to bed.

Next day went into lounge and saw where the ink was it was now a white fuzzy mess with faint bits of grey in it...

I messaged the cleaner to ask her what had happened and she said "Hello, oo sorry I thought the mark came of hoover so I tried to clean just put little carpet clean on it and try scrub it." It materialised over 2 or 3 text messages that she didn't see the ink marks when she entered the lounge (lack of attention to detail and rushing) saw them after she hoovered, inexplicably thought they were from the bottom of the hoover, went to the cupboard and found some old Vanish Oxy Carpet Cleaner, got a clean cloth and scrubbed it. 

I contacted the owner of the cleaning company and explained what had happened by What's App as that's a record of events plus it's how we have communicated. She didn't want to put anything in writing and insisted on a call. Husband and I called her together after we'd been into carpet shop and established it's going to cost £2,200 to replace the carpet. 

She flatly refuses to pay for replacement of our carpet and says it's not covered on her insurance and no insurance company in the land will pay for that type of damage.

That was all on Friday. We feel duped that a company can tell you they're fully insured, then when something happens, they're not.

Yesterday the carpet technician came round, saw the issue immediately, knew exactly what had happened without me telling her. She checked with her insurance and she cannot believe the domestic cleaning company, who she is aware of, are saying their insurance won't cover it.

The carpet cannot be fixed.

It has bleaching due the use of Oxy, pilling due to the scrubbing and the ink stain has been chemically bonded into the wool fibres due to the use of a supermarket carpet spray.

It's a large lounge and requires a 4 metre wide carpet.

What do people suggest?

We have legal protection with our insurance, but if we use it will that put our premium up?

Probably I should send a "without prejudice" letter to the company stating our case? Does anyone know of any templates we can use?

The domestic cleaning company can't get a carpet cleaner to us until next Monday. The husband used to have a carpet cleaning franchise for a few months so they believe they know everything about carpets...

Thank you for any helpful suggestions or information.

Sarah 

Section62

midsummer100 said:

Hello 👋 
We renovated our house during the first 6 months of last year and everything is brand new. Beige wool carpets are not yet a year old.

Having not had a cleaner for ages we started with a new cleaning company with the instruction that were not looking for the fastest cleaner in the world, but the best cleaner, slow and methodical, who will take care of our hard-earned possessions.

I interviewed a few cleaning companies and made my choice 

The cleaner they sent started by telling me she was a quick cleaner. I again told her that wasn't my remit and I wanted slow and methodical.

First week, could tell she had scant attention to detail.
Second week she ran over the hoover wire, which broke the electrics in the hoover. Cleaning company were sympathetic and said they'd send the husband over to look at it. He never showed so I got the chap who's serviced my hoovers for years to rewire it.

3rd week, nothing broken, perhaps an improvement I thought - every week I'm having to remind her slow and methodical...

4th week. A couple of days before we were going away. The day we went away our pooch decided to eat a pen in the lounge. 🤦 There were small bits of black ink on the carpet by the time I found her. We Googled and a good carpet technician will be able to remove ink easily. We have a good carpet technician who is part of the family owned carpet business we bought the carpet from.

The cleaner came in early the afternoon we were coming home, and left early.

We got home and were surprised she wasn't there and there was no note.

We were tired and went to bed.

Next day went into lounge and saw where the ink was it was now a white fuzzy mess with faint bits of grey in it...

I messaged the cleaner to ask her what had happened and she said "Hello, oo sorry I thought the mark came of hoover so I tried to clean just put little carpet clean on it and try scrub it." It materialised over 2 or 3 text messages that she didn't see the ink marks when she entered the lounge (lack of attention to detail and rushing) saw them after she hoovered, inexplicably thought they were from the bottom of the hoover, went to the cupboard and found some old Vanish Oxy Carpet Cleaner, got a clean cloth and scrubbed it. 

I contacted the owner of the cleaning company and explained what had happened by What's App as that's a record of events plus it's how we have communicated. She didn't want to put anything in writing and insisted on a call. Husband and I called her together after we'd been into carpet shop and established it's going to cost £2,200 to replace the carpet. 

She flatly refuses to pay for replacement of our carpet and says it's not covered on her insurance and no insurance company in the land will pay for that type of damage.

That was all on Friday. We feel duped that a company can tell you they're fully insured, then when something happens, they're not.

Yesterday the carpet technician came round, saw the issue immediately, knew exactly what had happened without me telling her. She checked with her insurance and she cannot believe the domestic cleaning company, who she is aware of, are saying their insurance won't cover it.

The carpet cannot be fixed.

It has bleaching due the use of Oxy, pilling due to the scrubbing and the ink stain has been chemically bonded into the wool fibres due to the use of a supermarket carpet spray.

It's a large lounge and requires a 4 metre wide carpet.

What do people suggest?

We have legal protection with our insurance, but if we use it will that put our premium up?

Probably I should send a "without prejudice" letter to the company stating our case? Does anyone know of any templates we can use?

The domestic cleaning company can't get a carpet cleaner to us until next Monday. The husband used to have a carpet cleaning franchise for a few months so they believe they know everything about carpets...

Thank you for any helpful suggestions or information.

Sarah 

So the timeline was the ink was on the carpet before you left for your holiday, with the cleaner due to visit, and you were going to arrange for the carpet technician to come in to remove the ink after you got back?

If so, did you message the company or leave a note for the cleaner to explain what the problem was and you didn't want the cleaner to do anything to the carpet while you were away?

midsummer100

Hi there 
That's correct. No we didn't as we completely forgot. But that's irrelevant really. It's as you go into the lounge from the hallway and was black ink on a very pale carpet. Anyone looking at what they were doing would have seen it. The action the cleaver should have taken when she saw the ink marks should have been to stop what she was doing, phone me, or phone her employer and ask. The cleaning company agree that should be the course of action. But she didn't. In fact, she left early, left no note, didn't tell anyone, and presumably hoped she'd get away with it. The first the cleaning company knew was when I informed them and forwarded the text message exchange between the cleaner and me.

Neither the cleaner nor the cleaning company are disputing what she did. The cleaning company have admitted/agreed that supermarket spray carpet cleaner containing bleach shouldn't have been used. They have also admitted/agreed that she shouldn't have scrubbed a wool carpet. 

Hoovering it wasn't the problem...

Albermarle

Apart from the ink issue, I think you have too high expectations when employing cleaners.
It is a low paid job with a high turnover of staff, and however much flannel the company gives you, it is a bit pot luck that who actually turns up is any good or not. Plus if they are any good they may well just disappear again at some point.

tacpot12

I think you are stretching the point too far to assume that the cleaner will see the marks and NOT attempt to remove them. They are there to clean the house. 

Your insurance premiums won't go up if you use the legal protection cover that is part of your home insurance, but I think you should be accepting that to a large degree the fault was yours in not telling the cleaning company that the carpet should not be cleaned. I would have erected a barrier around the marks with signs, in case the cleaning company failed to pass on the message (something that is always possible in a busy business). Biro is a difficult stain to remove and you knew what the stain was; the cleaner was never going to have this information unless you passed it on.

The cleaning company's insurers would have paid out, if the company was negligent, but I don't feel they or their operatative were in this case. It is certainly debatable, and in court, I would expect a judge to find that it was your duty to inform them if the carpet was not to be cleaned, so I don't think your insurer will take the case on as it has a poor chance of winning. 

At best you might get £200 from the company as a good-will gesture. I would recommend talking to your insurance company, but make sure you give them an accurate account of what happened, as you have here. 

midsummer100

Albermarle said:

Apart from the ink issue, I think you have too high expectations when employing cleaners.
It is a low paid job with a high turnover of staff, and however much flannel the company gives you, it is a bit pot luck that who actually turns up is any good or not. Plus if they are any good they may well just disappear again at some point.

Thanks. I've had cleaners for years. 20 odd years. I expect them to phone straight away if there's a problem and to admit when they have done something wrong. That's just common decency and it does exist. My last cleaner was Ukrainian and was wonderful. Sadly they relocated to Michigan. My cleaner before that worked for me for 10 years until she retired. 

It's the cleaning company I have the problem with. 

Section62

midsummer100 said:

Hi there 
That's correct. No we didn't as we completely forgot. But that's irrelevant really. It's as you go into the lounge from the hallway and was black ink on a very pale carpet. Anyone looking at what they were doing would have seen it. The action the cleaver should have taken when she saw the ink marks should have been to stop what she was doing, phone me, or phone her employer and ask. The cleaning company agree that should be the course of action. But she didn't. In fact, she left early, left no note, didn't tell anyone, and presumably hoped she'd get away with it. The first the cleaning company knew was when I informed them and forwarded the text message exchange between the cleaner and me.

Neither the cleaner nor the cleaning company are disputing what she did. The cleaning company have admitted/agreed that supermarket spray carpet cleaner containing bleach shouldn't have been used. They have also admitted/agreed that she shouldn't have scrubbed a wool carpet. 

Hoovering it wasn't the problem...

1st BiB - I'm not sure the cleaning company's insurer (if they are covered) would see it that way.  If there was a situation which required specialist treatment the question is whether a reasonable course of action would be to inform the cleaner the situation existed, and request it is left alone.

2nd BiB - Why would the cleaner identify spots on the floor as ink, vs mud or bits of fluff from clothing?  What would the average cleaner think when they see something on the carpet?  Is ink likely to be top of the list?  Then if they do identify it as an ink/oil-like mark, as someone paid to 'clean' wouldn't attempting to clean the mark be the obvious thing to do... using the "carpet cleaning" product you already have in the cupboard?

This is the potential problem you have if you try to make a claim against either the cleaner or the cleaning company.  Without explicit instructions ,the tests which may be applied revolve around what a reasonable person might do in that situation.  A court might take the view that you didn't mitigate the potential disaster by simply telling the cleaning company what had happened and requesting the cleaner doesn't go in the room and make the problem worse.  (personally I'd have put A4 notices on the lounge door(s) saying something like "ink on carpet, keep out")

Really you need to be clear whether it is the cleaner at fault, or the cleaning company.  From what you've posted it sounds like you feel much of the blame is on the cleaner.  TBH if you try to make a claim against her I think you would be unlikely to get anywhere.  The cleaning company also seem willing to blame the cleaner, but I'm not sure they would maintain that position if you send a letter before action.

In terms of repairing the damage, as the carpet is nearly new can the carpet company not do a patch repair rather than replacing the entire carpet? Obviously it depends on availability of the original carpet, but if some can be sourced then a professional carpet repairer should be able to achieve an invisible repair for less than the cost of full replacement.

Again, if you go down a 'legal' route then minimising your loss (e.g. by repair rather than replacement) may be important.

midsummer100

tacpot12 said:

I think you are stretching the point too far to assume that the cleaner will see the marks and NOT attempt to remove them. They are there to clean the house. 

Your insurance premiums won't go up if you use the legal protection cover that is part of your home insurance, but I think you should be accepting that to a large degree the fault was yours in not telling the cleaning company that the carpet should not be cleaned. I would have erected a barrier around the marks with signs, in case the cleaning company failed to pass on the message (something that is always possible in a busy business). Biro is a difficult stain to remove and you knew what the stain was; the cleaner was never going to have this information unless you passed it on.

The cleaning company's insurers would have paid out, if the company was negligent, but I don't feel they or their operatative were in this case. It is certainly debatable, and in court, I would expect a judge to find that it was your duty to inform them if the carpet was not to be cleaned, so I don't think your insurer will take the case on as it has a poor chance of winning. 

At best you might get £200 from the company as a good-will gesture. I would recommend talking to your insurance company, but make sure you give them an accurate account of what happened, as you have here. 

Ahhh. I see you are missing the point. The cleaner thought she had made the marks because she thought it was some kind of black that had come off of the hoover when she hoovered. Hoovering the marks wouldn't have made any difference to the marks as it was dried ink. She failed to see the black marks on the very pale carpet as she was hoovering which is unbelievable in itself as it pretty obvious. She then, instead of making a phone call to me or her employer, to say she thinks she's out black on the carpet, she deceitfully rooted in our cupboards, found some carpet cleaner spray at the back, sprayed it, got a clean cloth and scrubbed the carpet, thereby bleaching the carpet, chemically sealing in the ink, and making the carpet pile, none of which can be removed. She knew it was her fault, tried the cover her tracks, left without informing anyone, and left pretty sharpish - so much was her haste, she didn't empty the hoover, which she has always done before and she left half an hour early, again without telling anyone. 

No-one disputes the above. The text messages are clear. 

Section62

midsummer100 said:

tacpot12 said:

I think you are stretching the point too far to assume that the cleaner will see the marks and NOT attempt to remove them. They are there to clean the house. 

Your insurance premiums won't go up if you use the legal protection cover that is part of your home insurance, but I think you should be accepting that to a large degree the fault was yours in not telling the cleaning company that the carpet should not be cleaned. I would have erected a barrier around the marks with signs, in case the cleaning company failed to pass on the message (something that is always possible in a busy business). Biro is a difficult stain to remove and you knew what the stain was; the cleaner was never going to have this information unless you passed it on.

The cleaning company's insurers would have paid out, if the company was negligent, but I don't feel they or their operatative were in this case. It is certainly debatable, and in court, I would expect a judge to find that it was your duty to inform them if the carpet was not to be cleaned, so I don't think your insurer will take the case on as it has a poor chance of winning. 

At best you might get £200 from the company as a good-will gesture. I would recommend talking to your insurance company, but make sure you give them an accurate account of what happened, as you have here. 

Ahhh. I see you are missing the point. The cleaner thought she had made the marks because she thought it was some kind of black that had come off of the hoover when she hoovered. Hoovering the marks wouldn't have made any difference to the marks as it was dried ink. She failed to see the black marks on the very pale carpet as she was hoovering which is unbelievable in itself as it pretty obvious. She then, instead of making a phone call to me or her employer, to say she thinks she's out black on the carpet, she deceitfully rooted in our cupboards, found some carpet cleaner spray at the back, sprayed it, got a clean cloth and scrubbed the carpet, thereby bleaching the carpet, chemically sealing in the ink, and making the carpet pile, none of which can be removed. She knew it was her fault, tried the cover her tracks, left without informing anyone, and left pretty sharpish - so much was her haste, she didn't empty the hoover, which she has always done before and she left half an hour early, again without telling anyone. 

No-one disputes the above. The text messages are clear. 

What was the arrangement with the cleaning company, were they supplying the cleaning products the cleaner was meant to use, or was the cleaner using your own products?

The cleaner looking for a cleaning product in your cupboards doesn't sound 'deceitful[]', unless there was a clear instruction only to use those supplied by the cleaning company.

midsummer100

Section62 said:

midsummer100 said:

Hi there 
That's correct. No we didn't as we completely forgot. But that's irrelevant really. It's as you go into the lounge from the hallway and was black ink on a very pale carpet. Anyone looking at what they were doing would have seen it. The action the cleaver should have taken when she saw the ink marks should have been to stop what she was doing, phone me, or phone her employer and ask. The cleaning company agree that should be the course of action. But she didn't. In fact, she left early, left no note, didn't tell anyone, and presumably hoped she'd get away with it. The first the cleaning company knew was when I informed them and forwarded the text message exchange between the cleaner and me.

Neither the cleaner nor the cleaning company are disputing what she did. The cleaning company have admitted/agreed that supermarket spray carpet cleaner containing bleach shouldn't have been used. They have also admitted/agreed that she shouldn't have scrubbed a wool carpet. 

Hoovering it wasn't the problem...

1st BiB - I'm not sure the cleaning company's insurer (if they are covered) would see it that way.  If there was a situation which required specialist treatment the question is whether a reasonable course of action would be to inform the cleaner the situation existed, and request it is left alone.

2nd BiB - Why would the cleaner identify spots on the floor as ink, vs mud or bits of fluff from clothing?  What would the average cleaner think when they see something on the carpet?  Is ink likely to be top of the list?  Then if they do identify it as an ink/oil-like mark, as someone paid to 'clean' wouldn't attempting to clean the mark be the obvious thing to do... using the "carpet cleaning" product you already have in the cupboard?

This is the potential problem you have if you try to make a claim against either the cleaner or the cleaning company.  Without explicit instructions ,the tests which may be applied revolve around what a reasonable person might do in that situation.  A court might take the view that you didn't mitigate the potential disaster by simply telling the cleaning company what had happened and requesting the cleaner doesn't go in the room and make the problem worse.  (personally I'd have put A4 notices on the lounge door(s) saying something like "ink on carpet, keep out")

Really you need to be clear whether it is the cleaner at fault, or the cleaning company.  From what you've posted it sounds like you feel much of the blame is on the cleaner.  TBH if you try to make a claim against her I think you would be unlikely to get anywhere.  The cleaning company also seem willing to blame the cleaner, but I'm not sure they would maintain that position if you send a letter before action.

In terms of repairing the damage, as the carpet is nearly new can the carpet company not do a patch repair rather than replacing the entire carpet? Obviously it depends on availability of the original carpet, but if some can be sourced then a professional carpet repairer should be able to achieve an invisible repair for less than the cost of full replacement.

Again, if you go down a 'legal' route then minimising your loss (e.g. by repair rather than replacement) may be important.

Oh dear. I see my post isn't clear.

What the stain is, is irrelevant. The fact it was already there is irrelevant.

The cleaner who is employed by the cleaning company, thought she'd damaged our carpet and instead of contacting either the cleaning company or me, she tried to rectify it without telling anyone. 

It's irrelevant what the stain is because whatever it had been - mud, fluff, whatever - she used a spray that contains bleach and chemicals. The cleaning company should have ensured their employees are fully trained and understand that supermarket spray carpet cleaner contains bleach and should never be used as it will bleach the carpet and will chemically seal the stain - whatever it is and whoever caused it - into the carpet fibres. 

You will never get a match for any wool carpet as any carpet manufacturered now will be a different batch and have different colours. It would be impossible to match it. 

The carpet company are the best in our area. It's a family business and the technician is part of the family. She's highly qualified and patching a carpet is something they'd never do. 

There is no repair possible. I wish there was. Our furniture is all very heavy and we have no-one who can move it so we'll have to pay men to come in to move the furniture and pray for a nice day so it can go in the garden. 

midsummer100

Section62 said:

midsummer100 said:

tacpot12 said:

I think you are stretching the point too far to assume that the cleaner will see the marks and NOT attempt to remove them. They are there to clean the house. 

Your insurance premiums won't go up if you use the legal protection cover that is part of your home insurance, but I think you should be accepting that to a large degree the fault was yours in not telling the cleaning company that the carpet should not be cleaned. I would have erected a barrier around the marks with signs, in case the cleaning company failed to pass on the message (something that is always possible in a busy business). Biro is a difficult stain to remove and you knew what the stain was; the cleaner was never going to have this information unless you passed it on.

The cleaning company's insurers would have paid out, if the company was negligent, but I don't feel they or their operatative were in this case. It is certainly debatable, and in court, I would expect a judge to find that it was your duty to inform them if the carpet was not to be cleaned, so I don't think your insurer will take the case on as it has a poor chance of winning. 

At best you might get £200 from the company as a good-will gesture. I would recommend talking to your insurance company, but make sure you give them an accurate account of what happened, as you have here. 

Ahhh. I see you are missing the point. The cleaner thought she had made the marks because she thought it was some kind of black that had come off of the hoover when she hoovered. Hoovering the marks wouldn't have made any difference to the marks as it was dried ink. She failed to see the black marks on the very pale carpet as she was hoovering which is unbelievable in itself as it pretty obvious. She then, instead of making a phone call to me or her employer, to say she thinks she's out black on the carpet, she deceitfully rooted in our cupboards, found some carpet cleaner spray at the back, sprayed it, got a clean cloth and scrubbed the carpet, thereby bleaching the carpet, chemically sealing in the ink, and making the carpet pile, none of which can be removed. She knew it was her fault, tried the cover her tracks, left without informing anyone, and left pretty sharpish - so much was her haste, she didn't empty the hoover, which she has always done before and she left half an hour early, again without telling anyone. 

No-one disputes the above. The text messages are clear. 

What was the arrangement with the cleaning company, were they supplying the cleaning products the cleaner was meant to use, or was the cleaner using your own products?

The cleaner looking for a cleaning product in your cupboards doesn't sound 'deceitful[]', unless there was a clear instruction only to use those supplied by the cleaning company.

We supply the products. It's the 4th instance of something happening that she's not told anyone. Her understanding was that she had damaged our carpet. Her thought was to clean up the damage she'd caused, leave ASAP, say nothing and hope no-one would notice. That's deceitful. She had been shown exactly where to find cleaning products. I don't even remember having the spray carpet cleaner and it was at the back of the cupboard. It wasn't where she'd clearly been shown where to find things to use. I have a specific cupboard in each bathroom with the products for that bathroom. The only other room products are used is the kitchen. All the furniture is cleaned via a damp cloth only. We have electric toilets so only washing up liquid is used on them.