Parking charge for dropping camping equipment at friends flat has escalated to DCBL debt recovery

Bouncerus

Hi all, would appreciate some advice please. Essentially, I received 2x fines (parking without e-permit) for briefly loading/unloading my vehicle in my friend's apartment complex (we were camping with lots of equipment). My friend assured me all would be fine and she would take care of it before I entered. Received 2x notice to registered keepers, which my friend appealed on my behalf to NPC. NPC would write to me with an outcome of the appeal - this never arrived. I have now received a letter from DCBL for £340. 

Background: My friend lives in a gated apartment complex in a major city with a private car park. I’ve been driving for decades and never had a parking ticket, because I follow signage.

We were going camping and all the equipment was in their flat — as you can imagine, it was a lot. I saw the parking sign mentioning an e-permit and mentioned it to my friend, but she assured me it was fine and said they’d sort it if anything happened, and that people do it all the time. I took his word. 

I was buzzed in via intercom, parked near the entrance in the taxi/loading bay, and we loaded the car. We were there for about 30 minutes. We needed to park close to the building due to the amount of stuff, it would be genuinely impractical for me to park outside the complex and for us to load. Additionally, I have a medical condition meaning I would struggle anyways.

We did the same when we returned a few days later to unload, then I drove home.

Progress so far:

• I received 2 x Notice to Keeper letters from NPC (National Parking Control).

• My friend appealed on my behalf and submitted a letter to NPC, outlining the above (we were loading/unloading for camping & that no one was at the desk to register my car) and mentioned my medical condition. I provided an email authorising them to act for me

• NPC responded to my friend saying the appeal outcome would be sent by post — I assume to me as the registered keeper. This was in late April.

Since then, I’d asked my friend on two occasions that I haven’t received anything, because I worried - I know that parking fines don’t just vanish. They reassured me each time that it would arrive soon and I should not worry, and they would deal with it. 

However, I’ve now received a debt recovery letter from DCBL for just under £400. Apart from the original two NTKs, I’ve had no other correspondence from NPC — no appeal outcome letter or anything. 

What started as a simple £140 charge has now nearly tripled, and I’m being chased by DCBL. The letter states I can no longer appeal the parking charge, and my next opportunity is court. It says I need to pay within 14 days or call and arrange a repayment plan. 

I’m not sure if it’s worth contacting NCP via the email trail, explaining that I never received the outcome letter of the appeal. I was in the blind. If I'd known, I'd probaly just end paying the £140 just to call the end of it, as it's been stressing me out. It's now snowballed to £400.

I am also considering sending an email (from myself) to the property management company myself, rather than my friend doing it (not sure if they had done it earlier).

I’d really appreciate any advice on where I stand please and what I should do next. Thanks in advance.

Gr1pr

Definitely not fines,  just 2 invoices for the alleged breach of the parking contract on that private property 

It was never £140 per pcn,  the maximum is £100 a pop

Ignore DCBL, powerless debt collectors,  see post 4 in the newbies sticky thread in announcements about ignoring debt collectors and their so called scary letters, no phoning them , no contacting them 

I believe that you received letters from NPC, but you also mentioned a different company above, namely NCP,  so clarity is key here, no typos,  especially not with initials

You should definitely complain about it to the property management company,  trying to get a cancellation or two

Meanwhile,  come back to this thread if or when you receive a Letter of Claim giving you 30 days notice,  or a court claim against you 

But definitely ignore the debt collectors 

Ps, unloading and loading is not parking,  study the Laura Jopson case 

Bouncerus

Gr1pr said:

Definitely not fines,  just 2 invoices for the alleged breach of the parking contract on that private property 

It was never £140 per pcn,  the maximum is £100 a pop

Ignore DCBL, powerless debt collectors,  see post 4 in the newbies sticky thread in announcements about ignoring debt collectors and their so called scary letters, no phoning them , no contacting them 

I believe that you received letters from NPC, but you also mentioned a different company above, namely NCP,  so clarity is key here, no typos,  especially not with initials

You should definitely complain about it to the property management company,  trying to get a cancellation or two

Meanwhile,  come back to this thread if or when you receive a Letter of Claim giving you 30 days notice,  or a court claim against you 

But definitely ignore the debt collectors 

Ps, unloading and loading is not parking,  study the Laura Jopson case 

Hi, thanks for the response. It's indeed the NPC (National parking control) who manage the car park. 

Family are saying that If I ignore these letters from DCBL - they will add on fees (such as letter fees ect). 

Although it's my friend who lives at the apartment, I am considering writing to the property management company myself as I simply don't trust them to follow up - would it be an issue if I was to write directly to them, rather than the resident?

I am also considering emailing NPC myself, explaining that I never received an outcome of the appeal as they said I would. Although, I presume it was declined else I would not have DCBL letters coming through. 

Gr1pr

Doesnt matter what the debt collectors add on to each pcn charge,  they are unenforceable and regularly thrown out in court,  regardless of it being £70 or 70 million pounds , lol  you wont be paying any extra debt collectors fees, so not costing you a penny. How much was each PCN  ?

Debt collectors are powerless,  have no powers apart from sending out scary but unenforceable letters 

You could definitely complain about it to the property management company,  as I said earlier,  and to the resident if you wish

You could complain about the lack of any appeal response to NPC  too

Yes you can presume that,  but nobody here is interested in powerless debt collectors letters , they are irrelevant 

Only an LoC or court claim are relevant,  so keep your money in your pocket,  you dont owe a penny unless a judge orders it,  in court 

I dont think that you have studied the Jopson vs Homeguard court case yet  ?

Coupon-mad

If it's £400 then they already have added their fake fees. In fact this doesn't sound right; that sum is too high for a debt demand for 2 PCNs.

Sounds more like a court claim? Easy to defend and you'll never pay a penny.

Case law supports your position and this will cost you nothing to see off.

Read Jopson v Homeguard.

Is your friend a tenant or a leaseholder?

Show us this letter. I'm worried it could be post CCJ.

Bouncerus

Coupon-mad said:

If it's £400 then they already have added their fake fees. In fact this doesn't sound right; that sum is too high for a debt demand for 2 PCNs.

Sounds more like a court claim? Easy to defend and you'll never pay a penny.

Case law supports your position and this will cost you nothing to see off.

Read Jopson v Homeguard.

Is your friend a tenant or a leaseholder?

Show us this letter. I'm worried it could be post CCJ.

Hi Coupon, sorry the actual sum of the fine is £330

I have a question, I have received the first letter from DCBL asking for £330. I presume if I was to ignore them, more will come in the post with increasing costs.

After doing some reading in this forum, the only real legally enforceable one is the Letter before claim, which is the one to look out for.

If I ignore these standard DCBL letters, I'm sure the £330 amount will increase. Will the Letter before claim have these inflated costs, or will it drop down to £330?

I will be sending an email to my friends apartment management company (he's a tenant) along with an email to the PPC.

Technically speaking, the last correspondence from the PPC in April said that they would post a letter with the outcome. Obviously, this letter never arrived - meaning in my eyes the appeal process is still going on.

But in reality, they just have passed it onto DCBL which is unfair. I've had no opportunity to appeal to POPLA either, because I never received a letter stating the outcome of the appeal. I can only assume the letter didn't arrive at my doorstep, and they assumed non-payment.

Coupon-mad

Don't worry at all. You want the claim.

I have received the first letter from DCBL asking for £330. I presume if I was to ignore them, more will come in the post with increasing costs.

You presume wrong.

And even if you lost at a hearing in the end (next year) you'd pay LESS than that!

Bouncerus

Coupon-mad said:

Don't worry at all. You want the claim.

I have received the first letter from DCBL asking for £330. I presume if I was to ignore them, more will come in the post with increasing costs.

You presume wrong.

And even if you list at a hearing in the end (next year) you'd pay LESS than that!

Thanks for this Coupon.

Is it worthwhile sending an email to NPC complaining them that I never received the outcome of the appeal? In my eyes, I presumed either the PCN was cancelled or still under appeal - due to the lack of correspondence.

I even have pictures of my car parked outside the communal entrance, with one picture pre-loading and one picture with the car fully loaded. Is it worth emailing NPC that I will be stringently defending all myself and that I dispute the PCN, even though I have DCBL after me? 

Coupon-mad

Yes and no:

...once DCB get their hands on a case they have shown that they take no interest in the parking firm. We've even seen DCB Legal sue, two months after their client cancelled a PCN!

However yes, why not put in a complaint with NPC and see how they respond? It looks better and can be added to your defence if NPC fob you off.

Bouncerus

Coupon-mad said:

Yes and no:

...once DCB get their hands on a case they have shown that they take no interest in the parking firm. We've even seen DCB Legal sue, two months after their client cancelled a PCN!

However yes, why not put in a complaint with NPC and see how they respond? It looks better and can be added to your defence if NPC fob you off.

Thanks for this. I have another question about the debt letters from DCBL.

I know the advice is to safely ignore all letters from DCBL until the letter before action. As of current, DCBL are asking for £330. The original fine for both PCN's was something like £130.

I've been told that as they send more letters, they will pile more charges up.

When they send the letter before action, will this exceed the £330 charge the have currently placed on me? 

I am worried that if I ignore these letters from DCBL, they'll add on admin charges and I'll have a £500-600 bill to pay. 

Gr1pr

Worry ye not,  none of those extra charges are enforceable,  they are regularly thrown out by judges up and down the land, just figures on paper, like the numbers inside the boxes on deal or no deal,  so as the banker often says, not real money 

The signs tell you what the original charge was,  as do the pcns, typically between £70 and a maximum of £100 each, so £140 would be 2 pcns at £70 each, no additional charges 

Regardless of what the Letter of Claim says, or the court claim,  those 2 core charges are what the dispute is about,  nothing else 

If you lost in court then a judge would add standard legal fees and court fees to them, meaning that they can claim certain costs under the small claims system, but those are capped, it's not a free for all gravy train fir any claimant 

Dont overthink this,  the interim demands are pie in the sky,  works of fiction