Missed appeal window due to wrong address - questions

aggravated_yeti

Hi everyone - grateful for hep with the below situation. I've read the newbie thread in reasonable detail and still have a few outstanding questions, but apologies if these have already been answered elsewhere.

My situation

• I regularly go climbing at a climbing centre with private car park. The car park is administered by a private provider (civil enforcement ltd), and is free if you go climbing, provided you put your reg number in at a tablet at the centre
• Back in April, I must have made a typo when I did this (mistake #1) and therefore was sent a parking charge
• Unfortunately, this (and presumably subsequent letters) was sent to my old address, because I hadn't updated my v5c when I moved (mistake #2)
• Today, I got a notice of debt recovery from DCBL asking for £170, and noting that I'm not able to appeal before going to court, because it's been more than 28 days since the original charge (and all the letters in the meantime went to my old address).
• I've contacted the landowner (i.e. the climbing centre) who have been very helpful, but say they aren't able to cancel the PCN because it's been too long since it was issued - but had they been informed before, they definitely would have done, because it was an honest mistake. Obviously, had the original PCN been sent to my correct address, I would've been able to nip this in the bud easily. I've asked them to send me a) written confirmation this is the case and b) evidence that I was actually climbing that day (and therefore using the car park for its intended purpose).
• As per advice on this forum, I've emailed the parking provider and debt collector instructing them to erase my old address immediately. I haven't had any communication with them otherwise. I've also updated my v5c to the correct address.

My questions

I have no intention of paying the charge, and wish to go court subject to clarifying a few things:

1. Do I still have a leg to stand on given mistakes #1 and #2? I.e. given that these are both on me, will they count against me in court? 
2. Is there any further way I can leverage the landowner being firmly on my side in the context of a court case other than what I've already requested of them?
3. My wife is the registered keeper of the car, so the debt recovery notice has been served in her name. She is 9 months pregnant and has no intention of pursuing the case herself (which is fair enough...!). Can I pursue it on her behalf in terms of submitting documents, appearing in court, etc? Is there anything I need to do in order to transfer the case into my name, given that I was the one driving? 
4. I'm assuming a POPLA appeal is not an option at this stage given the time that has passed. Is this true?

Really appreciate any light you could shed on the above.

Gr1pr

1) everyone has a defence,  regardless of the old address issues 

2) impossible to say, but you have done the correct thing so far

3) she can name you as the driver,  to the parking company,  discharging her possible liability by transferring liability to the driver  , as mentioned by Johnersh in the following thread 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81486660#Comment_81486660

4) as it stands,  yes , correct 

Ignore the powerless debt collectors letters however 

aggravated_yeti

Thank you - thats really clear. On point 3, should she be contacting the parking company to name me as the driver, or the debt collectors (who sent the letter), or both? And presumably I can do this now without waiting for further action? I basically just want to make 100% this is off her plate, I’m happy to deal with whatever paperwork might follow.

Gr1pr

She could copy in both,  but definitely the claimant parking company,  the principal 

She would be telling the debt collectors that she has named the driver to the parking company under POFA2012 so they should refer the case back to their client 

And we are happy to help you going forward 

aggravated_yeti

Thanks - I really appreciate the quick responses and the huge amount of work that has clearly gone into everything written up in the newbies thread and elsewhere, it’s a real godsend!  

Gr1pr

Just make sure that it's done in her name,  from her, even if you are helping her,  because its her name on the paperwork,  not yours

Coupon-mad

Of course she can transfer liability to you as driver and should have done that already (not by phone of course). That's a normal part of the process. Then you can ignore the threatograms and then defend the poorly pleaded, doomed claim.

  

aggravated_yeti

Great - she's sent the email using the template in the thread Gr1pr linked. Am i right to think that I now proceed as per the newbies thread post #2 - i.e. ignore everything until I get a letter before claim and then respond accordingly?

Gr1pr

You should receive a letter in your name,  as the named driver,  so depends what it says

But once the letters are coming to you,  in your name,  we can help you with them, so wait and see  ( and if any demands continue to arrive in her name,  let us know too  )

aggravated_yeti

Hello all, 

Having emailed both debt collectors and parking company to transfer liability, my wife got this response from DCBL:

We write further to your recent email.

We are instructed by our client to recover the outstanding balance in relation to the Parking Charge issued to you.

Please be advised, the timeframe in which to transfer liability expired prior to our instruction. DCBL are not part of the transfer of liability process and we are solely instructed for the purpose of debt resolution. As the person named by our client, you remain liable for the outstanding balance.

Please note, DCBL are unable to enter any further correspondence regarding your appeal or dispute, as our position has been fully outlined.
 
Should you wish to discuss further payment options, please contact DCBL on 01606 539 169 and speak to one of our collections associates.
 
DCBL have a legitimate interest in this matter, due to the fact instruction is received from the client in debt resolution action of an unpaid debt. Whilst the case remains unpaid, DCBL will continue to pursue the debt, until our Client instructs us otherwise. Should the debt remain unpaid, it would be the decision of our client regarding how they wish to proceed.

The above was in response to the following email from her to them, for context:

I'm writing in reference to a notice of debt recovery addressed to me (DCBL reference XXXX) dated [DATE] in reference to a parking charge allegedly incurred on [DATE] for vehicle registration number [REG NO].

I am emailing to inform you that I was not the driver of the vehicle on the date and time alleged.

The identity and address of the driver is: 

[MY NAME AND ADDRESS

By naming the driver of the vehicle above any obligations as the vehicle's registered keeper have been discharged under the relevant sections of the PoFA 2012 as quoted:

Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle

4(1) The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle.

(2) The right under this paragraph applies only if—

(a) the conditions specified in paragraphs 5 [are met]

Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4

5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—

(a) has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but

(b) is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.

(2) Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper.

Now you have actual knowledge of the driver's identity (name and address), the conditions in paragraph 5 above are no longer met, so your right to pursue the vehicle's registered keeper is extinguished.

As a result, you are required to ERASE all personal details you hold for me under the GDPR act. All subsequent correspondence regarding the alleged charge should be directed to the driver and address identified above. 

As well as general advice on how to response to this (is there really a time limit for transfer of liability?) I was struck by the section in DCBL's email noting 'Should the debt remain unpaid, it would be the decision of our client regarding how they wish to proceed'. Does this mean there is still a chance I can lobby the parking company to drop the charge, or is it just boilerplate? 

Coupon-mad

Dear DCB Ltd,

Do you want me to report you to the CSA and the ICO now?

Or are you going to pass this complaint to a grown up who understands that the right to transfer liability is set under statute by Schedule 4, and does not 'expire' during pre-action stage.

I've transferred liability.

Get over it.

Stop scamming me and misusing my data now you know who was driving. The file will have to be passed back to your client to issue a PCN to the named driver now and you must stop contacting me henceforth.

yours faithfully