Parking Eye (PoFA), Homebargains, Sheffield - Advice Please

AnonymousBosh

Hi,
I have been sent a PCN for staying within a Homebargains carpark for 20mins, when the store was closed(!).  It includes car registration from ANPR, it is not a pay and display car park.  

The PCN is exactly as the example shown on https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80389142/#Comment_80389142

It is a NTK, but contains text stating they have the right to recover any debt from the vehicle owner, within the PoFA section.

The Parking Charge information states I exceeded the max stay time of 0 hours 0 minutes. 

I need to check the signage, but I suspect it states no parking outside of store hours.  The car park is not barriered and this feels like entrapment to allow people in and then issue PCN.

It feels pointless to contact Homebargains, so should I just send a simple appeal to Parkingeye, using the basic template.

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

Will this do any good since they warn they will pursue the vehicle owner

Any advice gratefully received.  Also the PCN just states "HOME BARGAINS SHEFFIELD", it does not include the specific location. (There are 3 Homebase in Sheffield).  Should I point this out in my appeal?

Date issued was very recent.

Many thanks.

AnonymousBosh

Sorry!!!!   - HOMEBARGAINS not Homebase.

Coupon-mad

I need to check the signage

Yes, please show us photos of the entrance (lack of signs?) and the t&cs sign inside the car park, taken in the same light conditions. 

Was it at night? Poorly lit signs?

If so why didn't you park on street? I would literally never use private car parks when stores are closed. Most streets are free to park on, if it was night/evening or a Sunday. Never seek out a car park if you can avoid it.

AnonymousBosh

Photos to follow. 

Full disclosure, a learner driver was having his first driving lesson.

It was an empty car park - with no pay and display - when the store was closed on a sunday evening.   It was never considered to look at the parking conditions.  My memory is that the sign on the way in just says maximum stay 1&1/2 hours because I've parked there to shop before and there was no drama; but I think the ANPR cameras must be new,  I'm usually overly careful about not parking anywhere I shouldn't, but the store was closed and the car park was open, so what was the problem with a quick 20 minutes driving practice.

If they've got me bang to rights then i'll pay the damn fine.  Thats a nice little earner for them I guess, instead of just putting in some gates when the store is closed.  Vultures are gonna Vultch.

Off to a quiet industrial estate instead, I guess.  

AnonymousBosh

Sign at Entrance                                                         Sign Inside

AnonymousBosh

So the signs are clear - It just didn't occur to me since I wasn't there to park. (I guess that just being there constitutes parking - ain't hindsight wonderful).

 

The question remains - Does the vehicle keeper need to identify the driver?  (the PCN says so).

Does the lack of specific location on the PCN matter?

Is there any other option than to just pay up?

Thanks in advance.

Gr1pr

There is no legal or compulsory requirement to name the driver,  especially if the keeper and driver are the same person 

It may do, clarity is required in these cases

Dont pay up is always an option,  unless a judge orders it

Ps, if the signs are forbidding,  no parking out of hours, then no parking contract was on offer,  so no offer, no consideration,  no acceptance 

There is the possibility of trespassing,  but that is for the landowner to decide,  which won't happen  ( and wont be Home Bargains,  it will be some investment company or similar   )

Coupon-mad

I guess that just being there constitutes parking.

No it doesn't.

And there is nothing of value offered to people who drive in on a Sunday evening. A contract is only ever based on CONSIDERATION flowing between the parties (something of value).

Therefore the elements of a contract do not exist after 4pm on Sundays.

AnonymousBosh

Thank you both for your comments.

@Gr1PR - You say there is no legal requirement, but then also 'it may do'?    Clarity is very much why I am seeking help on these forums.

 

Plus the notice itself states under PoFA "... if the parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know the name & address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you".  Is this an untruth?

The BPA/IPC Code of Practice states "Where a keeper fails to provide the name and address of the driver .. it may be assumed they are the driver, based on that refusal".  

@Coupon-mad - I absolutely agree that I received nothing of value.

However, the Code of Practice states the definition of Parking to be "a vehicle entering and remaining on controlled land."  and also "a vehicle may be deemed to be parked whether on not the driver has left the vehicle and/or turned off the ignition".

AnonymousBosh

I realise that you both have a hell of a lot more knowledge and experience of these matters than I do.   And I am absolutely not trying to prove you wrong or score any points off anybody.

Apologies in advance if i cause any offence, (I rarely get involved in forum discussions because I come off a bit officious and sometimes get peoples back-up.)  

What I primarily was hoping to learn is if I have a genuine grounds for appeal and what the grounds should be??

My feeling from the responses so far is that there are no clear or compelling legal reasons that the notice would be cancelled and the likelihood is that it would be for a court to decide on liability for the charge amount.  Therefore I would be at the mercy of a Judges opinion, which I am not keen on.

AnonymousBosh

One chink of light is the comment:

"no parking contract was on offer,  so no offer, no consideration,  no acceptance".

Perhaps this should be my key point.  I could try and appeal, stating I have no knowledge of whom was driving on that occasion and that since no parking contract was on offer, there is no acceptance of any charge.

It seems it would be difficult to defend a parking charge based on "0 hours 0 minutes max stay time".  A driver will have had to enter the car park to read the proper legal signage.

Thanks again in advance, for any further comments and advice.