Parking Eye (PoFA), Homebargains, Sheffield - Advice Please

AnonymousBosh

Aaaahhhhhh - dammit 

@Gr1PR - I've re-read your response and realised that by 'Clarity' you meant with regards to the location.  Apologies for the mis-understanding.

Gr1pr

AnonymousBosh said:

One chink of light is the comment:

"no parking contract was on offer,  so no offer, no consideration,  no acceptance".

Perhaps this should be my key point.  I could try and appeal, stating I have no knowledge of whom was driving on that occasion and that since no parking contract was on offer, there is no acceptance of any charge.

It seems it would be difficult to defend a parking charge based on "0 hours 0 minutes max stay time".  A driver will have had to enter the car park to read the proper legal signage.

Thanks again in advance, for any further comments and advice.

 

It is the key point,  nothing of value was offered,  so no contract,  basically the driver or drivers were trespassing on property,  but caused no damage per se,  so the landowner is the only true adversary here,  but definitely wont get involved 

You definitely do not lie, otherwise it could be a criminal matter in the future   ( I believe that you definitely know who drove onto that private property,  so perjury would be extremely foolish   )

You can appeal as keeper,  or name the driver,  but first you should check the NTK PCN letter for Pofa2012 compliance,  because if they complied with the law then they can hold the keeper liable,  regardless of who was driving 

That max stay time was zero because the driver should not have entered, proving that no stay on site time was offered,  so no parking contract,  so a forbidden action only

Clarity was regarding the actual location to be clear,  no ambiguity 

The joint Code of Practice states consideration periods, typically set at 5 minutes to read the signs, and leave , so not a 20 minute driving lesson 

Reading signs is also a part of driving lessons,  especially to see what is prohibited, like not entering a one way road past a no entry sign

fisherjim

AnonymousBosh said:

It is a NTK, but contains text stating they have the right to recover any debt from the vehicle owner, within the PoFA section.

I am quite sure it never mentions the vehicle"owner" they have no idea who that is and would find it difficult to find out, it does not mention a "fine" either. 

They will mention a "debt" but you have no debt unless proven in court, everything they say is to trap you into giving them money, that's all they exist for not managing car parks. If it was there would be a barrier after hours.

Just because the joint COP states:

"Where a keeper fails to provide the name and address of the driver  it may be assumed they are the driver, based on that refusal". 

Does not make that factual or right, a COP is just a trade association's guidelines on how to comply with their standards or regulations, the private parking industry is unregulated and the assumption that the keeper is the driver is quite ridiculous, last week we had an example where a keeper was a 10 year old!

Just being pedantic here as you need to get facts correct read everything carefully and that I'm afraid includes signage, which all stops mistakes being made.

Also think again before trying an "industrial estate" most of these are now infested by these predators it's easy money.

Coupon-mad

What I primarily was hoping to learn is if I have a genuine grounds for appeal and what the grounds should be?

Yes. Wot I said!

It's won at POPLA before. A decision about 'no contract was in offer' featured at least once in the POPLA Decisions thread in recent months

prowla

AnonymousBosh said:

Sign at Entrance                                                         Sign Inside

So - did you park there?

Coupon-mad

Looking at that sign, Home Bargains customers can't park on a Sunday before 10am or after 4pm. Odd that. I expect the store is open from 9.30 for Sunday browsers and even if not:

How does that restriction work fairly for Home Bargains customers, ParkingEye? Are vehicle's expected to teleport in and out exactly at the moment the shop opens (at 10am) then closes (at 4pm)?

@AnonymousBosh please edit the thread title to Home Bargains instead of Homebase.

Add YES you can use this at POPLA, they will like this:

Also the PCN just states "HOME BARGAINS SHEFFIELD", it does not include the specific location. (There are 3 Home Bargains in Sheffield).  Should I point this out in my appeal?

prowla

The point I was making two posts up is that the signage doesn't say you can't use the car park for driving tuition, drift & donuts practice, or other non-parking activities of your choice.

AnonymousBosh

Thank you all for the comments.

I have appealed to ParkingEye to challenge the 'contract', so I'll see how that goes.  I expect them to just bat it straight back to me, so then its to decide if I need the aggro of taking it further.  It would be satisfying to win, but I don't want the thing to spiral into a great big drama, plus unknown court costs etc.

Addressing some of the comments:

• I am not intending to lie at any point, but I assumed it is for them to prove who was using the vehicle at the time.  Surely I don't have to volunteer any information.  (Except it seems they can hold the keeper liable, so that seems a dead-end; although this still doesn't make sense to me - if a contract for payment was formed, surely they have to know, and be able to prove, who was party to the agreement!)  

• How they can claim a driver agreed to a contract of parking for zero minutes, seems ridiculous.
  
  
• Absolutely the driver should have heeded the signage - but this scenario still feels like entrapment.  If they don't want anyone in the carpark they can just string a chain across the entrance.
  

Ho, hum....    Nice and sunny out though 

Castle

prowla said:

The point I was making two posts up is that the signage doesn't say you can't use the car park for driving tuition, drift & donuts practice, or other non-parking activities of your choice.

But the car park is a "Public Place" so the driver could be charged with careless/dangerous driving.