Signing Will remotely

Idpullthecurtain

Has anyone experienced any issues with the function that allows witnesses to sign wills remotely (with video call)?
Seems like it would be less robust method?  Im sure it was a COVID thing but according to the GOV website, as of today its permissible. 

Peter999_2

I don't know why you would think it is less robust?      Thing about a witness is, I could sign as a witnes pretending I was someone else.     If the will was then required, they would contact the name of the person I used and ask them if they signed the document - they would deny it and it would be investigated.

Surely the same would happen if I had do it over a zoom call?    When the will was used, they would still have to contact the person and ask them if they signed the document.

The thing I really really don't like is that you can be verified by a solicitor over a zoom call for making changes to the land registry.   I think that is open to abuse, but of course you can now sign up and get alerts if anyone tries to make changes to your title.

madbadrob

How can you sign a will remotely?  Surely to sign a will and for it to be valid the testator and the witnesses should be in the same room watching each  other sign as this is what you are agreeing to when you sign a will

Rob

madbadrob

As I understand the .gov site your witnesses can watch you sign the will Remotely ie via video conference call and vice versa at a later date but the actual act of signing still as to take place.  I am assuming that the OP meant digital signinng as we do say for a contract by ticking a box and then the digital footprint serving as the identifier.

Not sure of the date of this article but the fact its not been edited or removed would suggest it is still correct.  The referecne to the law society questionaire - This was done in 2023  with the law society recomendations being expected anytime soon.  Initially it was expected last month but as yet there as been no mention.

Rob

Idpullthecurtain

madbadrob said:

How can you sign a will remotely?  Surely to sign a will and for it to be valid the testator and the witnesses should be in the same room watching each  other sign as this is what you are agreeing to when you sign a will

Rob

According to Gov website;

"Signing your will remotely

If you cannot meet with your witnesses in person, you can watch each other sign your will remotely (for example by video conferencing).

You can only sign remotely in England or Wales."

p00hsticks

I'd not come across this before - from my recollections, during covid solicitors would stand outside and witness signatures through an open window. 

how does it work during over video call, as don't both the testator and witness signatures have to be on the same sheet of paper ? Does the testator sign it while the witness views it over video and the testator then mails the signed will to the witnesses for the mto add their details ? It seems  a bit of a !!!!!! and possibly the source of sone problems (e.g. what if the will gets lost in the post between testator and witness, or the witness just hangs onto it once signed ?) 

Getting a solicitor and clerk to witness the testators signature in person, visiting their home if necessary,  seems a lot more straightforward

Idpullthecurtain

Peter999_2 said:

I don't know why you would think it is less robust?      Thing about a witness is, I could sign as a witnes pretending I was someone else.     If the will was then required, they would contact the name of the person I used and ask them if they signed the document - they would deny it and it would be investigated.

Surely the same would happen if I had do it over a zoom call?    When the will was used, they would still have to contact the person and ask them if they signed the document.

The thing I really really don't like is that you can be verified by a solicitor over a zoom call for making changes to the land registry.   I think that is open to abuse, but of course you can now sign up and get alerts if anyone tries to make changes to your title.

True, I guess any method can be misused with Wills and witnesses.  I guess this is a modern world.

Idpullthecurtain

madbadrob said:

As I understand the .gov site your witnesses can watch you sign the will Remotely ie via video conference call and vice versa at a later date but the actual act of signing still as to take place.  I am assuming that the OP meant digital signinng as we do say for a contract by ticking a box and then the digital footprint serving as the identifier

Rob

No I didnt mean digital signatures.  I just meant the process of signing remotely and the different parties being in different locations.  Seems questionable to me.

p00hsticks

Idpullthecurtain said:

madbadrob said:

As I understand the .gov site your witnesses can watch you sign the will Remotely ie via video conference call and vice versa at a later date but the actual act of signing still as to take place.  I am assuming that the OP meant digital signinng as we do say for a contract by ticking a box and then the digital footprint serving as the identifier

Rob

No I didnt mean digital signatures.  I just meant the process of signing remotely and the different parties being in different locations.  Seems questionable to me.

Me too - there can only be one original will, and it can't be in two different locations at the same time. Loose sheets of paper attached post signature are IMO just asking for trouble with the Probate Office futher down the line...

Idpullthecurtain

p00hsticks said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

madbadrob said:

As I understand the .gov site your witnesses can watch you sign the will Remotely ie via video conference call and vice versa at a later date but the actual act of signing still as to take place.  I am assuming that the OP meant digital signinng as we do say for a contract by ticking a box and then the digital footprint serving as the identifier

Rob

No I didnt mean digital signatures.  I just meant the process of signing remotely and the different parties being in different locations.  Seems questionable to me.

Me too - there can only be one original will, and it can't be in two different locations at the same time. Loose sheets of paper attached post signature are IMO just asking for trouble with the Probate Office futher down the line...

No, no.  Theres only one document. 

Its transferred to all parties and they sign whilst video call shows the signing taking place.

madbadrob

Idpullthecurtain said:

madbadrob said:

As I understand the .gov site your witnesses can watch you sign the will Remotely ie via video conference call and vice versa at a later date but the actual act of signing still as to take place.  I am assuming that the OP meant digital signinng as we do say for a contract by ticking a box and then the digital footprint serving as the identifier

Rob

No I didnt mean digital signatures.  I just meant the process of signing remotely and the different parties being in different locations.  Seems questionable to me.

And Poohsticks.

What currfently is allowed is and ill use myself and you 2 if I may.

I write a will and through my solicitor ask you two to be my witnesses.  You both live in say Sussex and I live in Yorkshire.  My solicitor epmloys the use of a solicitor in your home town and you attend their office where a video link is set up.  I appear on this and I see you at your end.  The will is then presented by my solicitor to me and you watch me sign that will.  I then assume that will is then placed in an envelope DX'ed to your solicitor and on a set date and time all three of us again appear on the video link where I watch you sign the same will which as my wet signature on it.  This is then Dx'ed back.  I assume both solicitors will sign an affidavit to say this was witnessed by them  etc etc.  This then validates the will.  There is nothing in law that says both witnesses have to be there at the same time but both must witness the testator ie me in the above example sign the  will or affirm that they recognise the signature as mine.  That is from the .gov site today however, Legal and General on their webiste ( https://www.legalandgeneral.com/insurance/over-50-life-insurance/wills/who-can-witness-and-sign-a-will/ )  suggest that the ammendment to the Wills Act 1837 until 31st Jan 2024 although there is no date associated with that page.

Im not sure why there would be any issue in this form of signing a will as you seem to think Idpullthecurtain because the witnesses still have to watch me sign the will and accept the few legal items such as they are happy I am of sound mind (I never have been mwahahah) that I havent been coerced etc.  All of these can be circumnavigated with the old fashioned way of witnessing a will anyway.  

I can sign electronically for a loan mortgage etc now so I dont see why we cant make and sign wills electronically either.  I am waiting for the law societys decision in this matter but whatever they decide the final say will be down to the government in power at the time and of course the HoC

Rob