Money Moral Dilemma: Should my tenant pay for missing the gas engineer's appointment?

BikingBud

silvercar said:

The engineer should have phoned you from the property, so that you could either have tried to get in touch with the tenant or dashed over with a key. 

And when the tenant has legally changed the locks to ensure quiet enjoyment of their home?

What then?

BikingBud

benedictadams said:

As a landlord you are legally required to have a gas safety check in order for you to be able to rent your property 

Therefore you should be the one who is arranging the appointnent not your tenant 

What if there was an issue discovered in the check with the boiler or cooker would you be expecting the tenant to be sorting out times for the repairs to be done

It's your responsibility, you couldn't be bothered to do a very important part of your job as a landlord. 

So the landlord books an appointment and the tenant says "sorry mate not convenient".

Clearly the failure, is in communication, most of the time it is.

If the LL was not clear in what they were intending and why they had delegated to the tenant then I would expect that they should suck this up. However after one failure I would now advise the legal position and give the option to the tenant, arrange the inspection at your convenience or ensure that I can get access to carry out the inspection in your absence. It needs to be completed by XXX and your failure to support this mandatory check cannot be tolerated. 

If there are issues, irrespective of LL attendance or not, the rectification may be another issue entirely and subject to revisit especially if the equipment has been declared dangerous/condemned. 

BikingBud

user1977 said:

Just_An_Opinion said:

MSE can answer this as it's legal and not moral.

Indeed, maybe @MSE_Kelvin can comment on why something which actually has a legally correct answer is being presented here as purely a moral conundrum?

Because the LL has been frustrated, by the "forgetfulness" of the tenant in meeting their legal obligation?

Everyoneneedstodotheirbit

The moral part is pretty easy, isn't it?  If the tenant made the mistake, the tenant should pay – we're all grown up and should take responsibility for our actions.

The legal bit it easy(ish) – I'm property lawyer with 30 years experience.  The lease will govern the relationship.  A well drafted AST will provide that the tenant has to provide access to the landlord or its agents (and an engineer here would be an agent) at reasonable times and on reasonable notice.  Assuming the lease is drafted in that way and relevant notice has been given, the tenant will be in breach of the lease.  The TFA doesn't stop this – indeed a payment of damages for breach of a tenancy agreement or an agreement between a letting agent and a relevant person is a permitted payment (paragraph 5, Schedule 1, TFA 2019).

Hope that helps!

Ed264

Initially I was thinking the tenant should pay because she made the appointment but failed to keep it. However, others have strongly indicated it's the landlord's responsibility, and for the reasons outlined, I'll go along with that view. You live and learn.

catprofit

The bottom line is legally it's your responsibility, but it sounds like there has been a discussion regarding this. Morally but not essential I would say it would be nice for your tenant to contribute to some of the cost as a discussion and agreement has taken place.
An expensive lesson to learn. Maybe in the future if she is still there you can and you have the same agreement you can remind her of the charge 

citygirlscotland

No question - landlord's responsibility of course

JayD

Short answer - NO!

Jumblebumble

Everyoneneedstodotheirbit said:

The moral part is pretty easy, isn't it?  If the tenant made the mistake, the tenant should pay – we're all grown up and should take responsibility for our actions.

The legal bit it easy(ish) – I'm property lawyer with 30 years experience.  The lease will govern the relationship.  A well drafted AST will provide that the tenant has to provide access to the landlord or its agents (and an engineer here would be an agent) at reasonable times and on reasonable notice.  Assuming the lease is drafted in that way and relevant notice has been given, the tenant will be in breach of the lease.  The TFA doesn't stop this – indeed a payment of damages for breach of a tenancy agreement or an agreement between a letting agent and a relevant person is a permitted payment (paragraph 5, Schedule 1, TFA 2019).

Hope that helps!

I hope that you as a lawyer would understand the difference between an AST and a Lease
Your advice is great in theory but as a friend of mine has been advised by a solicitor if the tenant refuses access to a gas engineer  there is not much a landlord can do and are unable to serve a section 21 so have to serve a section 8
Then the courts will take months to hear and the bailiffs even longer if the court order eviction
Whoever engaged the gas engineer should pay and this is clearly the landlord

RHemmings

Jumblebumble said:

Everyoneneedstodotheirbit said:

The moral part is pretty easy, isn't it?  If the tenant made the mistake, the tenant should pay – we're all grown up and should take responsibility for our actions.

The legal bit it easy(ish) – I'm property lawyer with 30 years experience.  The lease will govern the relationship.  A well drafted AST will provide that the tenant has to provide access to the landlord or its agents (and an engineer here would be an agent) at reasonable times and on reasonable notice.  Assuming the lease is drafted in that way and relevant notice has been given, the tenant will be in breach of the lease.  The TFA doesn't stop this – indeed a payment of damages for breach of a tenancy agreement or an agreement between a letting agent and a relevant person is a permitted payment (paragraph 5, Schedule 1, TFA 2019).

Hope that helps!

I hope that you as a lawyer would understand the difference between an AST and a Lease
Your advice is great in theory but as a friend of mine has been advised by a solicitor if the tenant refuses access to a gas engineer  there is not much a landlord can do and are unable to serve a section 21 so have to serve a section 8
Then the courts will take months to hear and the bailiffs even longer if the court order eviction
Whoever engaged the gas engineer should pay and this is clearly the landlord

According to the NRLA link above, landlords should be vigilent concerning tenants refusing visits for gas safety inspections, and should serve a S21 before the current gas safety certificate expires if the tenant is not cooperating. (Please, everyone who reads this to whom this might apply, go back and read the actual page rather than my summary sentence.)