10+ Predatory PCNs issued by Ocean Parking - now with Trace Debt Collection

Syd97A7X

Hi all,

First-time poster here so apologies for any mistakes, would really appreciate input on how to handle this issue as I'm at my wits' end and don't want to fork out over £1,500 on predatory PCNs.

For context, I'll provide info below of everything that I've done regarding this issue.

I used to live in Pomona Strand in Manchester, but I did not have an allocated parking space as my studio flat did not come with the offer of one, and at the time I did not have a vehicle, so I wasn't renting a parking space out in the garage.

A few months ago, my now-wife and I were gifted a car by my father-in-law as a wedding present, and we decided that for the 2-3 months before moving out to our new flat, we'd park outside the parking garage, where many other people were also parking without issue.

About two weeks after having the car parked there and using it to get to work and back, food shopping etc., we got an influx of 6-7 PCNs/invoices from Ocean Parking, all delivered in one go, to our letterbox. We then immediately moved the car into a nearby parking lot and paid for a few days' parking, and sorted an arrangement with another tenant to rent their parking space for a month, only to receive another 5-6 PCNs/invoices, again from Ocean Parking, for the same alleged contravention of parking outside the parking garage.

Worth noting that not one physical PCN/invoice was put on our windshield to inform us that this was a no-parking zone, and we were completely unaware that we were accumulating so many fines, until they all hit us over the course of two days. On two occasions, we were given two fines in one day, one at around 07:30 or so in the morning before we leave for work, and one after 22:00 in the evening when we are usually in bed, which is disgusting in its own right as there's clearly punitive intent here with the fines coming at such early and late hours.

As soon as these fines hit us, I immediately sat down and typed out a very thorough appeal, breaking it down to these main points:

1. The sign cited by Ocean Parking to have been the basis of the supposed contract was zip-tied at an excessive height on a lamp post (about 7-8m high or more), and was conveniently out of eyesight and ineligible. I argued that the terms and conditions on the sign cannot be considered legible, as even with a 3x magnification using my phone, I still couldn't read any of the T&C lettering.

2. The sign was zip-tied and not professionally affixed, which could easily lead to someone (i.e. Ocean Parking agents) being able to manipulate it to face in any direction they want to get away with issuing a PCN/invoice.

3. The actual lamp post that the sign was zip-tied to was placed inside another parking lot entirely, with a metal barrier between the road where the car was parked and the lamp post. I argued that this physical barrier made it very confusing as to whether the sign they used to justify the PCNs applied to the road where the car was parked, or inside the parking lot itself, as the lamp post, and therefore the sign it was affixed to, was in an entirely different space in a nearby car park. The car park itself also operated under different  Ocean Parking T&Cs, as it had a whole other sign relevant to the car park area, so lots of confusion here.

4. Finally, I brought to their attention that in the week or two following the issuance of the PCNs/invoices, strong winds basically blew the entire sign down - it was literally barely hanging on by one zip-tie, and has actually been blown clean off since then. Even saw this myself when I went to visit my mate the other week who still lives there. I used this to dispute its reliability and permanence, and called into question the amount of resources spent to monitor the road and issue fines, but not to actually fix the sign itself.

I wrote up an entire appeal, citing case law such as ParkingEye vs Beavis around fairness and proportionality, essentially implying that they willingly let the fines accumulate so they can get a big payout, argued that they did not bring up a general pre-estimate of loss (GPEOL) so the fines were invalid and seemingly punitive, the works. Happy to attach my entire appeal as I did believe at the time that it was airtight.

According to their processes, I first had to appeal each and every one of the fines individually on the Ocean Parking website, and true to form they declined each one and told me I can bring it up with the IAS as that is who they are affiliated with, and not POPLA. The problem is, is that after a lot of research I realised that the IAS is just essentially a kangaroo court and they were just as likely to simply decline my appeal further as Ocean Parking (read online that it was something like a 2-3% overturning rate), so I simply didn't bother wasting time and energy, and instead opted to start saving up some money on the side in case they tried to push this further and play the waiting game.

Fast forward to a month or two later, I've moved into a new flat and I've received a letter from Trace stating that these "debts" have been passed to them by Ocean Parking, and that the amount went up from £100 to £170 for each fine, so now I basically owe double what I already supposedly owed.

My wife and I are even considering using some of the money we got for our wedding to pay off what is clearly an extortion attempt by Ocean Parking to fleece us out of our hard-earned money, using punitive and predatory practices, but I want to make sure that we've exhausted all options before we do anything.

We would really appreciate some input as to what our options are here, as we absolutely cannot afford a CCJ on our record due to the type of work we're in as it would demolish career prospects.

Again, apologies for the long post but I hope there's some recourse as to what can be done to address this.

Thanks in advance!

Nellymoser

Oh dear you don't want to be giving wedding gift money to an unregulated Parking Company. Wait for others to advise but in meantime

Have you notified Ocean's DPO of your new address? Leaving them with an old address risks you missing court claims and a CCJ by default.

Read NEWBIES Announcement thread
• 4th Post Debt Recovery Stage there's also advice on changed address.
• 2nd Post Small Claim

I guess Ocean Parking are IPC members. They use IAS appeals service. POPLA is for BPA members. Your info on IAS is spot on and you were right not to waste time appealing.

Car1980

Ocean aren't very litigious, although they may take a punt because it's large amount.

Your appeal may well have been airtight, but there is no appeals option. Ocean, like virtually every parking company, will refuse every single appeal. How would they make a profit otherwise? You could argue fraud, but that's a whole separate ballgame.

Just keep all your evidence (it all sounds spot on). There's nothing you can do other than wait for a Letter Before Claim from a solicitor (or "bulk litigator") and come back for advice.

Show us the signage and one of the original tickets though (minus personal details).

If T&Cs aren't clear of course you'll continue to park there. You don't build up so many tickets if the restrictions are clear. The onus on on them to make restrictions clear. I'm guessing there's no big hatched area to make it obvious?

Dont worry about a CCJ. They can't just "get one" like they imply.

Coupon-mad

Do NOT pay them a penny.

Gather evidence now in case they try a small claim, which is actually what you want, because it's the only real dispute resolution you get from this rogue, rotten industry.

No judge is daft enough to let a parking firm add ten x the fake DRA fee! You realise even if you lost in court (which you won't) you'd pay hundreds less than the Trace letter is demanding?! No CCJ.

Ocean aren't litigious anyway but never say never.

The important thing is to gather evidence:

1. - proof of renting that bay from the neighbour. Go and ask them to sign & date a Witness Statement NOW confirming the arrangement and that they had the exclusive right to that bay;

2. - Photos of the Ocean sign(s) ...and please show us those asap. One picture zoomed in too, so that we can read it.

3. - a copy of your tenancy agreement.

Get that together this month and also:

4. Email Trace and Ocean's DPO contacts (see their privacy pages) and tell them to ERASE YOUR OLD ADDRESS and only correspond with you at NEW ADDRESS.

Do that even though Trace have traced the new address (that's not the point),

If you get a letter from Moorside Legal (or another solicitor) then it's 'game on' (STILL DON'T PANIC OR PAY - AND DON'T LET A RELATIVE DO THAT WHEN YOU ARE ON HONEYMOON EITHER). NOBODY PAYS.

You are not risking any CCJ as long as you do not ignore a Court Claim form. That's easy to defend but you need to open all letters and not move house again without telling them.

Syd97A7X

Hi all,

First and foremost, thank you all for your responses - it really helped set our minds at ease that we can essentially ignore and and all comms from these clowns until an LBC ever shows up. Good to know that they're just grasping at straws here trying to take my money, and if they ever decide to take it to court they'll probably get a good kicking from the judge.

I've been kicking about the idea of possibly appealing to the IPC with a strongly-worded e-mail, but again, after reading up on it online, it looks like it'll just be another instance of just arguing/appealing with a brick wall! Any thoughts on this?

I've included all the picture evidence below - you can see how out of sight the sign is, as well as its physical location being in a completely separate parking lot, and all the fine print that is supposed to be legible is in tiny, tiny writing. Yes, they can argue that the big writing of "No Parking or Waiting at Any Time" can be taken as the basis for the PCN, but, again, the whole sign is in another parking lot! 😅 The car was parked 5-10 meters in front of the sign, so can see how easy it can be missed if you don't know it's already there.

First image is Zoomed 3x, second image is the normal view without zooming in. The other 2x images are to show the physical location of the sign in question, as well as the zip-tie on the back which clearly shows how this sign could be manipulated to face wherever they want it to, to excuse any PCNs they want to write.

I suppose the only logical next step is to hold fire, wait for any LBC letters (and of course, not ignore any mail coming in from these clowns) and then get a solicitor to step in? Or can I/should I draft my own defense?

Thanks again everyone!

ChirpyChicken

sending the IPC an email is a waste of time

Syd97A7X

I thought as much, thank you for clarifying - will just have to diligently check my mail for the next few months and keep an eye out for an LBC!

Gr1pr

Syd97A7X said:

Hi all,

I suppose the only logical next step is to hold fire, wait for any LBC letters (and of course, not ignore any mail coming in from these clowns) and then get a solicitor to step in? Or can I/should I draft my own defense?

Thanks again everyone!

The latter, although there is no S in the word Defence,  but due to the large number of pcns involved,  you may be seeking proper help from Contestor legal 

Car1980

Insufficient signage, as you've pointed out. If you are desperate for people not to leave their cars on your wasteland, make it obvious. Clearly nobody is seeing the restrictions as there are loads of cars!

It's also a temporary cable-tied correx board. So of course it's going to get blown away by the wind.

Finally, it's a forbidding sign and contractual unenforceable. Search the forum for forbidding sign.