Car finance denying liability- Financial ombudsman help - misfuelling

nicolea1998

Hi, sorry this post may be long

I bought a diesel car on the 14th of December 2024 from a dealership. 

On the 18th of December as I was driving to work the car came to a stop, I called the dealership who did not answer. 

 I called the AA who plugged the car in and the code came back as 
DTC:P0087, Fuel Rail/System Pressure - Too Low 

The AA seemed to think that I had run out of fuel, despite it still showing 50 miles left in the tank, he explained it was likely because I was going up a steep hill, and sometimes the fuel gauges on my car can somewhat inaccurate. 

The dealership called back later that evening and I explained the situation, but in all honesty they didn’t say much, and in hindsight I should have kicked up more of a fuss. The advice from the AA was to just make sure it had plenty of fuel. 

Everything seemed to be fine after that 

From the 11th of February to the 11th of March I was abroad and the car was sat on the driveway at home. 

On the 1st of April driving down from scotland, the car made it the stretch to Manchester before it came to a stop on the motorway at 1am, it took the AA 7 hours to recover us. 

(Would have been later if highways didn’t call and tell them this was unacceptable!) 

When recovery did come these were the codes 

P0087-22

Fuel Rail/system Pressure - Too Low

P0087-21

Fuel Rail/system Pressure - Too Low

P0087-21 

Fuel Rail/system Pressure - Too Low

I called the dealership who came and collected the car to take back to one of their garages, which happened to be a specialist garage (separate to the dealership) 

The garage has inspected the car, and told the dealership it has been misfuelled, and therefore will not be covered under warranty. 

I called the garage, who said that they had smelt petrol/ taken a flame to the fuel and it had sparked, suggesting there was petrol in the tank, unbeknownst to me they had already drained all of the fuel from the car, and not kept any back. This means we cannot get a sample to send of for analysis. 

I contacted Zopa, as the car is on finance, and explained the issue, the initial time it broke down, the second time the car broke down, that the garage has drained the fuel, and that I absolutely have not put petrol in the car. (Which somehow also made it from Scotland to Manchester with no suggestion anything was wrong) I believe the car was faulty when I bought it. 

Zopa told me that they would take the car for an independent inspection, and take into account the whole situation before they reached a decision. 

Zopa asked for a receipt of the last time fuel was put into the car, which was 5/6 hours prior to breaking down, and I did provide this, which showed that the fuel was diesel. 

On 30/5/25 Zopa called me to tell me that the receipt was not good enough, because it had no REG on the receipt (I don’t think they ever do and I’m not filling up random cards in the forecourt!) it does have a bank card number on though. Zopa have told me that there is not enough evidence to warrent an independent investigation, that the 1st break down in December is irrelevant due to how much time has passed therefor cannot be related, and that I will have to pay for repairs which stand at £2500. Zopa has just sided with the garage and their smell tests with no actual proof. 

I’ve escalated this to the financial ombudsman however they’ve told me it will be around 3 months before they can investigate, and I’ve already gone 2 months without a car. I asked if I could pay for repairs and claim the cost back, just so that I had my car back, but they said that Zopa could dispute that the work has not been carried out by their approved garages. This feels really unfair. 

I feel like I’m losing my sanity, I’ve been using the car for such a small amount of time that it’s only had fuel put in around 10 times, all of which is were large amounts £30-50, I struggle to believe I’d make it very far away from a petrol station if I had just put that amount of petrol in my diesel car let alone from Scotland to Manchester! With no knocking or decreased performance. 

Does anyone have any advice? Sorry this is really long 

Mildly_Miffed

You estimate you put £3-500 of fuel in the three months you were driving the car, roughly 215 to 350 litres, so probably 3-4000 miles in total, with a decent trip on the day it failed. You don't say where in Scotland, but even Gretna Green to Manchester is 130 miles.

If they're really detecting petrol in the diesel, it'd be absolutely homeopathic quantities if the car had been misfuelled PRIOR to your ownership, and a substantial proportion if it was a misfuel on the day of breakdown.

A filling station receipt with your (partial) card number on is no proof of anything, unfortunately - apart from anything else, a receipt from 5 hours before a long journey may not even be the last time it was filled... and "but there's nothing on my bank statement" doesn't prove anything either, as you may have paid cash. Or they may suggest you started to put petrol in, realised after a litre or two, paid to clear the pump, then brimmed with diesel - which is the receipt you're producing now.

But, as you say, it's hard to see a diesel car with a substantial misfuel covering 130+ miles running fine.

Theoretically a misfuel of petrol in a common-rail diesel could well cause low fuel pressure, because of rapid wear in the high pressure pump sending swarf through the system and wearing or jamming open the pressure relief valve in the fuel rail. But to have the same code crop up twice, three months and several thousand miles apart... Hmm, no.

What diagnosis have they done apart from "that fuel smells funky"?

paul_c123

Its within 6 months, they have to prove the fault WASN'T present when the car was purchased by you. In addition to having to prove there's petrol in the diesel, they also have to prove you were the one to put the petrol in, and the causal link between misfuelling and the fuel pressure error codes. (You could be cheeky and insist upon receipts of petrol with your reg on! Only joking). Of course it could be some other as-yet-undetermined reason, of which you don't need to care less about, because its their problem.

In answer to the statement "its not covered under warranty" you could reply "I am not making a warranty claim, I am claiming car is not durable/fit for purpose under CRA2015". If the dealer has an underlying warranty that wriggle out of paying out, that's their problem not yours.

Mildly_Miffed

paul_c123 said:

Its within 6 months, they have to prove the fault WASN'T present when the car was purchased by you.

The presumption of presence at the time of purchase is with the buyer within six months, true - but "It was running fine for three months and several thousand miles" certainly introduces plenty of doubt into that.

In addition to having to prove there's petrol in the diesel, they also have to prove you were the one to put the petrol in

No, they don't - the identity of the person with the pump in their hand is irrelevant.

The presence of non-trivial quantities of the wrong fuel after several months and thousands of miles is all that's needed to void any warranty or liability for issues with the fuel system.

Ultimately, if the OP is going for rejection and the supplier refuse, then the process is the same as ever.
Return the car physically to the supplier.
If they don't pay willingly, court case jointly against the supplier and financier for the money.

paul_c123

Mildly_Miffed said:

No, they don't - the identity of the person with the pump in their hand is irrelevant.

So, if you buy a diesel car from a dealer and it conks out within 2 miles and 5 minutes, who picks up the bill? Does this differ if the buyer filled it up with petrol a mile from the dealer on the way home (and the garage can prove that)?

The tables are turned 180deg. The garage have to take responsibility within 6 months, UNLESS the customer was at fault and did something to sufficiently override that presumption.

MattMattMattUK

paul_c123 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

No, they don't - the identity of the person with the pump in their hand is irrelevant.

So, if you buy a diesel car from a dealer and it conks out within 2 miles and 5 minutes, who picks up the bill?

That depends what why it "conks out", but under that situation it would normally always be the dealer, unless the driver had done something incredibly stupid (redlining the engine in first for the two mile drive). 

paul_c123 said:
Does this differ if the buyer filled it up with petrol (and the garage can prove that)?

Yes, then the dealer would not be liable because it would not be a pre-existing fault, but an issue directly caused by the driver. 

nicolea1998

Mildly_Miffed said:

You estimate you put £3-500 of fuel in the three months you were driving the car, roughly 215 to 350 litres, so probably 3-4000 miles in total, with a decent trip on the day it failed. You don't say where in Scotland, but even Gretna Green to Manchester is 130 miles.

If they're really detecting petrol in the diesel, it'd be absolutely homeopathic quantities if the car had been misfuelled PRIOR to your ownership, and a substantial proportion if it was a misfuel on the day of breakdown.

A filling station receipt with your (partial) card number on is no proof of anything, unfortunately - apart from anything else, a receipt from 5 hours before a long journey may not even be the last time it was filled... and "but there's nothing on my bank statement" doesn't prove anything either, as you may have paid cash. Or they may suggest you started to put petrol in, realised after a litre or two, paid to clear the pump, then brimmed with diesel - which is the receipt you're producing now.

But, as you say, it's hard to see a diesel car with a substantial misfuel covering 130+ miles running fine.

Theoretically a misfuel of petrol in a common-rail diesel could well cause low fuel pressure, because of rapid wear in the high pressure pump sending swarf through the system and wearing or jamming open the pressure relief valve in the fuel rail. But to have the same code crop up twice, three months and several thousand miles apart... Hmm, no.

What diagnosis have they done apart from "that fuel smells funky"?

It’s possible that there isn’t any petrol in at all, they have done no diagnosis other than it smells funky and that it ignited when they lit it. However Zopa have just taken their word for it, apart from the both times the car came to a stop, there was no other warning signs there was anything wrong, the car drove really smoothly 
I did push back at the bank about this and the lack of evidence but they will not budge, they’ve taken the garages word as gospel. 

In a difficult position as rejecting the car could take months and I need a car 

Mildly_Miffed

paul_c123 said:

The garage have to take responsibility within 6 months, UNLESS the customer was at fault and did something to sufficiently override that presumption.

No, they ABSOLUTELY do not.

Six months ONLY changes the presumption of liability for whether faults were pre-existing.
Below six months, the presumption is that they were UNLESS the vendor shows otherwise.
Over six months, the presumption is that they were not UNLESS the buyer shows otherwise.

Everything else is unchanged. Reasonable expectations for used goods of that price, apparent condition, etc. There is zero "HAVE TO" about it.

The fact that the car drove just fine for several months and several thousands of miles suggests that the fault was not pre-existing, especially if there is evidence that the car has been misfuelled. Any pre-purchase misfuel would be way below trace quantities after a couple of hundred litres have gone through the tank of a running-perfectly car.  This is a very different scenario from your hypothetical two-miles-and-five-minutes.

The initial low-pressure fault that occurred quickly after the purchase did not recur, and there is no evidence that it was anything but what the breakdown service suggested, simply running out of fuel.

paul_c123

The vendor hasn't shown otherwise (yet). They're clutching at straws with the misfuelling accusation. All they've done so far is think of some reason to not progress, because its not an obvious issue. Issue still hasn't been properly diagnosed, that's step #1 here.

The problem for the OP is, they'll need an independent inspection (which costs money) to progress the issue because the garage are digging their heels in. That's a PITA in itself.

Was the car serviced just before purchase? Did this service include replacing the fuel filter? It is possible (don't know the make/model so can't say more) the fuel filter has deteriorated so much that its connections are corroded and leaking in air, which would cause this error code. But then that would only find out what has failed, not why and when. It would be difficult to pinpoint it back to the buyer as their fault.

HillStreetBlues

I seem to recall another thread on same issue, garage falsely claiming misfueling might be help to OP if anyone can remember / link to it (find forum search useless)

Mildly_Miffed

HillStreetBlues said:

I seem to recall another thread on same issue, garage falsely claiming misfueling might be help to OP if anyone can remember / link to it (find forum search useless)

This one?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6498528/rejecting-new-car-due-to-dealer-misfuel/p1

Similarities on the surface, but no more - it was brand new, and delivered with 60 miles in the tank, driven straight to fill up with petrol - it failed five days and less than three hundred miles later, with the dealer claiming diesel had been put in, then water contamination. The issue was a faulty injector causing bore wash in one cylinder.