Red Signal offence (2.4seconds)

Leo_the_King88

Hi Experts,

Is it possible for you to guide me on below situation?

I have received a red signal breaking letter as my time into red is 2.4sec (Tolerated limit seems to be 2.99). I was navigating through a traffic and i had crossed the white line when red signal started. I pulled my car back safely before the white line (So i did not offend the rule) and only left from the signal in next turn. I was well within my speeding limit.  

What could be the best course of action for this offence? Do you see any chance of winning this appeal in front of court? 

thanks 

soolin

virendra29 said:

Hi Experts,

Is it possible for you to guide me on below situation?

I have received a red signal breaking letter as my time into red is 2.4sec (Tolerated limit seems to be 2.99). I was navigating through a traffic and i had crossed the white line when red signal started. I pulled my car back safely before the white line (So i did not offend the rule) and only left from the signal in next turn. I was well within my speeding limit.  

What could be the best course of action for this offence? Do you see any chance of winning this appeal in front of court? 

thanks 

Other more knowledgeable people will be along to advise later, but I thought it worth clarifying the statement ' and i had crossed the white line when red signal started'. Did you or didn't you cross the white line when the red was showing? What you did afterwards was immaterial, so did you originally cross the line? 

Car_54

Leo_the_King88 said:

Hi Experts,

Is it possible for you to guide me on below situation?

I have received  as my time into red is 2.4sec (Tolerated limit seems to be 2.99). I was navigating through a traffic and i had crossed the white line when red signal started. I pulled my car back safely before the white line (So i did not offend the rule) and only left from the signal in next turn. I was well within my speeding limit.  

The "rule" is that it is an offence for any part of the vehicle to cross the stop line when the lights are red or amber, so you clearly did break it. There is no "tolerated limit".

What do you mean by "a red signal breaking letter"? If this was a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) then the only thing you can (and indeed must) do at present is to reply naming the driver. 

Nothing you have said suggests any defence.

sheenas

It looks to me from what you have said that you have not broken any rules. Firstly if it's the case that you had already passed the stop line before the light started to change then you are entitled to complete the move. Further you did not proceed with the move. I would appeal and see what they say, you might not pass you driving test with such a manoeuvre, but it seems to fall short of running a red light. 

dumpster_fire2025

Leo_the_King88 said:

Hi Experts,

Is it possible for you to guide me on below situation?

I have received a red signal breaking letter as my time into red is 2.4sec (Tolerated limit seems to be 2.99). I was navigating through a traffic and i had crossed the white line when red signal started. I pulled my car back safely before the white line (So i did not offend the rule) and only left from the signal in next turn. I was well within my speeding limit.  

What could be the best course of action for this offence? Do you see any chance of winning this appeal in front of court? 

thanks 

The relevant legislation are The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 & Road Traffic Act 1988 Sec 36

The TSR states 

the red signal conveys the prohibition that vehicular traffic must not proceed beyond the stop line.

With the RTA stating 

 Where a traffic sign, being a sign—
(a)of the prescribed size, colour and type, or
(b)of another character authorised by the [F1relevant authority] under the provisions in that behalf of the M1Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,
has been lawfully placed on or near a road, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence.

This is an absolute offence so if you cross the white line when the light is red you are guilt of the offence. Any tolerance is almost certainly to avoid challenges in court vis-a-vis the equipment being sufficiently accurate to, for example, accurately identify someone passing the line 0.000001 seconds after the light went red. It's not something the courts will take into account as it's not something written into the legislation.

The best course of action would be to pay the fine, I doubt the court will be impressed by you arguing that the "tolerated limit" is 2.99 seconds and you went over 2.4 secs into red.

Car_54

sheenas said:

It looks to me from what you have said that you have not broken any rules. Firstly if it's the case that you had already passed the stop line before the light started to change then you are entitled to complete the move. Further you did not proceed with the move. I would appeal and see what they say, you might not pass you driving test with such a manoeuvre, but it seems to fall short of running a red light. 

From the OP's description, if the light was not red then it must have been amber when he crossed the line. That is an offence, and since he was able to reverse safely it seems that he could not claim the defence that stopping would have been unsafe.

However, since the cameras are not activated by the amber light, but only by the red, I would respectfully suggest that the OP is mistaken.

TooManyPoints

First things first.

Check the paperwork you have received.

It will almost certainly contain a "request for driver's details". As above, you must respond to this within the 28 days allowed, naming yourself as driver, You must do so regardless of how you intend to proceed with the red signal offence. Failure to do so will see you commit a more serious offence which carries six points and an insurance-crippling endorsement code (MS90). 

After you have done that, the police will either (1) offer you a course, (2) offer you a fixed penalty (£100 and 3 points) or (3) prosecute you in court. You cannot "appeal" this decision. If they offer you a course or fixed penalty and you do not accept it they will prosecute you. Your option then will be to either plead guilty or plead not guilty and face a trial.

The system works by detecting vehicles that cross the stop line when the signal displays red. If you choose  to face a trial, the police will produce evidence to show that your vehicle did that. You will have to cast sufficient doubt on that evidence so that the court is unsure that you committed the offence. The cost of failure is high. If you are convicted following a trial you are unlikely to see much change out of £1,000.