Success getting DHL admin charges cancelled

MattMattMattUK

ThumbRemote said:

visidigi said:

They also have the right to refuse to accept any deliveries to you in future.

MattMattMattUK said:

As others have said you are likely now blacklisted, DHL will probably refuse any and all consignments for your name at your current address. If you think that was worth £35 then I suppose that represents value to you.

Absolutely bizarre, one person mentioned that DHL have the right to refuse deliveries and this becomes "others", "likely", "probably"... 

Others haven't said that. You've just claimed it's likely, with no factual basis. 

We have seen it happen on here, I have seen it happen (with different couriers) through work, the same with people having their account closed and blacklisted for getting a Chargeback against retailers (Amazon being the one who closes accounts most regularly).

From the courier's perspective it was easier to refund than continue the argument with someone who was not rational. Equally it also makes sense to never deal with that individual again, so they can and do blacklist to protect themselves.

born_again

Which given Evri being merged into DHL, could have a bigger effect on blocked deliveries.

Aylesbury_Duck

born_again said:

Which given Evri being merged into DHL, could have a bigger effect on blocked deliveries.

Blimey.  If this carries on, OP will end up being deported. 🤣

prowla

What happens if someone has sent a parcel with insufficient postage, so that there is excess postage to pay?

Do you refuse to pay it and demand your item?

Arunmor

This really is so petty and pedantic OP.  You knew were going to be charged a handling fee.  But just remember what goes around comes around. 

Ergates

Ectophile said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Smiffypr said:

I recently received a bill from DHL for £35.13 VAT, plus "clearance authorization" £25 and "duty tax receiver" £11. I didn't ask DHL to do anything, I have no contract with DHL so I pointed out that without agreement, there was no contract therefore they had no legal right to bill me for anything other than the VAT they paid. 16 days later they have credited my bill with the £11 and £25. I have paid them the VAT. 

The exact wording of my messages to them:

"I think that it is wrong that you do this without giving me any choice whether to accept the delivery and pay VAT or reject it.
But I accept that the VAT has been paid and that I owe you for that. However I  have not requested you to act on my behalf in this way, I have no contract with you, so I will not be paying your "Extra charges". If you can produce the documentation where I agreed to this in advance, then will I pay.
Please send a revised invoice without the extra charges."

"First let me correct some errors in your email.
1) I am not enquiring, I am refusing to pay the administration fees.
2) re "This service includes the extra work of contacting you for specific clearance instructions for each shipment received via DHL."
You did not contact me for any instructions, you behaved independently.

Then let me explain to you in simple terms how a legal contract works. It has to be an agreement between two or more parties and has to involve exchange of things of value (e.g. goods services or money). I'm sure if you contact your UK lawyers they will confirm this. *

I did not enter into a contract with you, so I have no legal obligation to pay you for what you decided to do unilaterally.

The fact that you say "These charges have been detailed in our tariff and transit guide since May 2002 and were implemented on 1st July 2002." and "The charge has been correctly applied to this shipment and therefore remains payable to DHL." means nothing. I could say I charge £20 for every DHL parcel that is left at a place not in accordance with my written instructions, then send you a bill for that. Would you pay that, when you haven't agreed to it in advance?

I suggest that you talk to your lawyers, and when they tell you you have no legal basis for these charges, then issue an invoice for the VAT only, which I will pay."

"Absolutely you can do something else for me.
You can send an invoice which includes no extra charges other then than the VAT. Unless you have an agreement with me for you to act on my behalf I will not be paying your arrangement charges.

If this is "above your pay grade" I suggest you get your lawyers to contact me directly to explain how you can legally bill me for things for which we have no contract."

They have never admitted in words that they were in the wrong, but clearly they know they are otherwise they wouldn't have deducted their charges.

i hope this helps someone else in a similar situation.

Totally incorrect. It's all covered under the Postal Services Act 2000.

Next time you import something, get the sender to write 'Importer will clear customs' on the front of the package and you can do it all yourself.

I can't see anything in the section you have linked to that allows a courier to make up their own charges.  They can pass on any charged that they had to pay to someone else.

Section 105-3 states:

 "Relevant duties or other charges payable in respect of postal packets to which this section applies (whether payable to a postal operator or to a foreign administration) may be recovered by the postal operator concerned and in England and Wales and Northern Ireland may be so recovered as a civil debt due to him."

It says "payable to a postal operator", not "payable to another postal operator".  
DHL are a postal operator, they can recover charges payable to themselves.

Moreover, the next section - 105A states:

"[F15105ASection 105: limit on handling charges etc

(1)OFCOM may give a direction to a postal operator—
(a)limiting the amount of any handling charge, and
(b)limiting the length of time for which a postal packet may be detained under section 105(4A) (and, if a direction is given under this paragraph, that subsection has effect subject to the direction).
(2)Where a direction is given to an operator limiting the amount of a handling charge, section 105(3) to (4A) have effect in relation to the operator (in any case where the charge would otherwise exceed the amount specified in the direction) as if the charge were equal to the amount specified in the direction.
(3)Before giving a direction to a postal operator under this section, OFCOM must—
(a)inform the operator that they propose to give it a direction, and
(b)allow the operator an opportunity to make representations about the proposal.
(4)In this section “handling charge” means a charge payable to a postal operator, in respect of a postal packet, for the performance by the operator of all or any of the duties mentioned in section 105(2)(c).]"

That OFCOM can place a limit on the amount of "any handling charge" makes it clear that postal operators are allowed to change handling fees (otherwise it would be a redundant rule).

Ergates

Smiffypr said:

Well I'm clearly an idiot in your minds, but I got £35 refunded for sending three emails. If you can sniff at £35 for 15 mins work, you clearly don't belong on the money savings forum!

£35 to which you were not entitled.    This is a consumer rights forum, not a "make a nuisance of yourselves to get free money" forum.

DullGreyGuy

Ectophile said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Smiffypr said:

I recently received a bill from DHL for £35.13 VAT, plus "clearance authorization" £25 and "duty tax receiver" £11. I didn't ask DHL to do anything, I have no contract with DHL so I pointed out that without agreement, there was no contract therefore they had no legal right to bill me for anything other than the VAT they paid. 16 days later they have credited my bill with the £11 and £25. I have paid them the VAT. 

The exact wording of my messages to them:

"I think that it is wrong that you do this without giving me any choice whether to accept the delivery and pay VAT or reject it.
But I accept that the VAT has been paid and that I owe you for that. However I  have not requested you to act on my behalf in this way, I have no contract with you, so I will not be paying your "Extra charges". If you can produce the documentation where I agreed to this in advance, then will I pay.
Please send a revised invoice without the extra charges."

"First let me correct some errors in your email.
1) I am not enquiring, I am refusing to pay the administration fees.
2) re "This service includes the extra work of contacting you for specific clearance instructions for each shipment received via DHL."
You did not contact me for any instructions, you behaved independently.

Then let me explain to you in simple terms how a legal contract works. It has to be an agreement between two or more parties and has to involve exchange of things of value (e.g. goods services or money). I'm sure if you contact your UK lawyers they will confirm this. *

I did not enter into a contract with you, so I have no legal obligation to pay you for what you decided to do unilaterally.

The fact that you say "These charges have been detailed in our tariff and transit guide since May 2002 and were implemented on 1st July 2002." and "The charge has been correctly applied to this shipment and therefore remains payable to DHL." means nothing. I could say I charge £20 for every DHL parcel that is left at a place not in accordance with my written instructions, then send you a bill for that. Would you pay that, when you haven't agreed to it in advance?

I suggest that you talk to your lawyers, and when they tell you you have no legal basis for these charges, then issue an invoice for the VAT only, which I will pay."

"Absolutely you can do something else for me.
You can send an invoice which includes no extra charges other then than the VAT. Unless you have an agreement with me for you to act on my behalf I will not be paying your arrangement charges.

If this is "above your pay grade" I suggest you get your lawyers to contact me directly to explain how you can legally bill me for things for which we have no contract."

They have never admitted in words that they were in the wrong, but clearly they know they are otherwise they wouldn't have deducted their charges.

i hope this helps someone else in a similar situation.

Totally incorrect. It's all covered under the Postal Services Act 2000.

Next time you import something, get the sender to write 'Importer will clear customs' on the front of the package and you can do it all yourself.

I can't see anything in the section you have linked to that allows a courier to make up their own charges.  They can pass on any charged that they had to pay to someone else.

105(3) allows "other charges" and then section 105A gives OfCom the power to cap the handling charges in relation to 105(3)

MattMattMattUK said:

Smiffypr said:

Well I'm clearly an idiot in your minds, but I got £35 refunded for sending three emails.

As others have said you are likely now blacklisted, DHL will probably refuse any and all consignments for your name at your current address. 

Wouldnt use the term "blacklisted" as that has wider meanings and is illegal.

I agree in principle DHL could however has anyone ever come across when a courier has, particularly on a global scale? Given couriers are normally the middleman it causes them problems if they sign an exclusive deal with say Macy's to do their global delivery, the banned customer then buys something from Macy's and DHL then has to tell them they won't deliver the order but Macy's can't use someone else because they have an exclusive deal.  

Exodi

Ergates said:

Smiffypr said:

i hope this helps someone else in a similar situation.

Useful as an example of someone being confidently incorrect, but beyond that....

As a sales director with visibility of all incoming customer service cases, you'd be surprised at just how common this is. I've lost count of the amount of times our staff were alleged to be behaving 'illegally' should they query anything. As you can expect, the prized superlatives get dusted off, so emails are usually filled to the brim with: 'disgusted', 'appalled', 'gobsmacked' with the condescending meter always whacked up to 100. 

But yes, as many others have said, some consumers clearly have a lot of time on their hands and it's not economical for staff to spend hours and hours and hours arguing with an emotional and irrational customer over a relatively negligible amount of money.

I think given the length and condescending tone of even just the communication the OP quoted, if it was to us I probably would have recommended our staff not waste any time on them and just issue a refund too. No-one is going to get a legal team involved for £35, despite what the OP thinks, but that doesn't mean the OP was right.

It can be a bit pathetic, but OP counts it as a win so all's well that ends well.