PCN - TPS

Bob159

Hi all,
Sorry if this has already been covered, I have had a good read through the newbie section but can't see much about tickets that come through the post with pictures of the car going in an out.
I did go to the ticket machine and thought I paid for three hours but I will be honest it was a couple of weeks ago so it could of maybe only been for two if that is the case there is 26 mins over. 
Surely they is a grace period for parking up and sorting two kids out of and into the car. One which had at a toilet accident which is why I was later back to my car.

The letter arrived yesterday almost 2 weeks after the incident, and says it has to be paid within a couple of days or it will increase. They have craftily put a "date of sending this notice" but that was 10 days ago which is a long time for something to arrive in the post.

My friends are saying to just ignore it and eventually it will go away..
But after reading through this forum is seems the best step is to complain. should I do this before the so called 14 day period or wait like it says on another post?
Is it worth going back taking pictures of the signage etc? I didn't know this car park even took reg details and time stamped as a went to a machine to by a ticket.

any help would be greatly appreciated I really can't afford £60 never mind it rising to £100 in a couple of days.

Gr1pr

The typical grace period is a minimum of 10 minutes at the end of a valid parking session,  so not 26 minutes ! So probably an underpayment for the time on site , check what the alleged contravention says on the pcn 

It doesn't increase at all, the early settlement offer expires, leaving the full amount outstanding,  usually £100 ( with an early settlement figure of £60  )

You need better friends,  in England and Wales ignoring it is likely to result in a court claim by the claimant using MCOL 

Complaints go to the business or landowner,  but if its an underpayment then I suggest that plan A will fail 

ANPR cameras always log number plates,  have done for about 15 years   !

Signage pictures can be very helpful or useful 

Bob159

It says time of entry on the PCN not the time I had been to the machine and bought the ticket.(unfortunately binned the ticket a couple of days ago)

It says reason for issue : Parked for longer than permitted.

Sorry I wasn't clear I understand ANPR logs your reg details, I just didn't know ANPR was in place as they made you go to the machine to buy a ticket.

Surely the time should be start once you have parked up and bout a ticket? not from point of entry.

My worry is it could go to court which is why I raised the question here.

I will go back to check the signage then.

Bob159

I do apologize for the terrible spelling, I will make sure to proof read before posting next time...

Bob159

Is it worth sending the appeal letter below? and delete the part about the images of the vehicle?

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

KeithP

Why delete anything? Just sent the template appeal as it is.

Gr1pr

They do normally start the clock on entry,  not when the ticket is purchased,  so only a judge in civil court can decide if they are correct or not.  That explanation means not enough time was purchased for the period on site,  the grace period was exceeded so effectively another 1 hour should have been purchased before leaving, to fully cover the time on site.  So whilst I do understand,  they wont and dont care 

The signage should help regarding your parking contract and the rules the driver agreed to

Court is always a possibility in any alleged breach of contract,  but there are several stages to complete before an actual court hearing takes place  ( they don't take people to court,  they issue a court claim and only decide if it us going to a hearing a few weeks before the pencilled in court date , typically 2 to 4 weeks before the hearing date  )

Bob159

KeithP said:

Why delete anything? Just sent the template appeal as it is.

My thoughts with this is they have already send the PCN with the photo of entry and exit.
It does say on the PCN if you appeal you get a 14 day extension of the reduced rate even if the appeal is refused so will be worth it as hopefully I can find the funds if need to pay.

Gr1pr said:

They do normally start the clock on entry,  not when the ticket is purchased,  so only a judge in civil court can decide if they are correct or not.  That explanation means not enough time was purchased for the period on site,  the grace period was exceeded so effectively another 1 hour should have been purchased before leaving, to fully cover the time on site.  So whilst I do understand,  they wont and dont care 

The signage should help regarding your parking contract and the rules the driver agreed to

Court is always a possibility in any alleged breach of contract,  but there are several stages to complete before an actual court hearing takes place  ( they don't take people to court,  they issue a court claim and only decide if it us going to a hearing a few weeks before the pencilled in court date , typically 2 to 4 weeks before the hearing date  )

Thanks for the feed back it is appreciated, I will go check the signage tonight, my mistake thinking it was time from when the ticket is bought ( although I thought i paid for 3 hours). 
After my daughter had a toilet accident was the last thing on my mind to check my ticket and uplift. it was to get her home. but I do understand that isn't the carparks problem.

Gr1pr

There was an Ncp- Inland Revenue court case that decided that payment started the contract when the green payment button was pressed,  perhaps a decade ago,  so it could be considered to be a valid argument in court as far as determining a consideration period from entry time to payment time . So its not exactly your mistake,  its a valid argument but private parking companies tend to prefer their version of these issues,  as shown in the latest BPA CoP 2025

The minimum 10 minutes grace period to exit is after the paid for time expires,  for a quick but free exit 

Its their job to prove that incorrect payment was made,  but always keep hold of any paper receipts for several months,  payment by app tends to be logged on the app or payment method etc, dont bin paper receipts for 3 to 6 months  !

Various arguments surround the paid for car parks, including the pay before exit method etc, or the time starts when payment is made argument, or the time starts on entry as in this case, so the signs are crucial here,  they always are, anywhere  !

For example,  the Peel Centre in Stockport is pay before exiting, an Ocean Parking contract 

KeithP

Bob159 said:

KeithP said:

Why delete anything? Just sent the template appeal as it is.

My thoughts with this is they have already send the PCN with the photo of entry and exit.

That doesn't stop you asking for the pics again. Why not give the parking company some extra work?

Bob159 said:

It does say on the PCN if you appeal you get a 14 day extension of the reduced rate even if the appeal is refused so will be worth it as hopefully I can find the funds if need to pay.

You won't be paying anything.
An appeal being refused isn't a good reason to pay up.

Car1980

TPS seem to go down the DCB Legal / last minute court discontinuance route or the BW Legal route that peters out and doesn't result in a court claim.

Either way, doing nothing seems to result in probably a 60% chance of a court claim and a 99% chance of discontinuance in such a case.

If you have urgent childcare issues you're looking at frustration of contract as a legal defence anyway.

Defending a court claim is merely filling in some forms.

Remember 41,000 other people received a ticket today. Even if half pay, that's 20,500 people a day in your boat.