Theft or not: Point of view

Jimifan

Just interested to hear others' point of view.
In my book, if someone takes something which does not belong to them, that is theft.
Some years ago now while I was on holiday I left my camera on the bus seat.
I realised as soon as I got off but couldn't chase the bus so called into their office to tell them.
I called in every day for a week to see whether it had been handed in but it wasn't.
So I went to the police station to report it stolen. They said it wasn't theft so it wasn't a crime.
Now in my book, if someone finds something and knows it's not theirs, makes no effort to hand it in to the police or lost property but keeps it for themselves (or sells it) that is stealing.

comeandgo

In my point of view, if they had snatched it from your arms and ran away, yes that is stealing.  Lifting something someone has left on a seat is not stealing but I don’t think it’s very honest to keep it. 

user1977

We don't all get to make up our own definitions of crimes (would be useful if we could!). Assuming the incident happened in England or Wales, the definition of theft is here.

You lost your camera, nobody knows whether its disappearance involved the crime of theft, though I'm surprised the police wouldn't at least take details.

Given you've posted on the Insurance board, is this related to an insurance claim?

mebu60

Theft by finding can be a crime if it can be proven that no effort was made to locate the true owner. If you were reporting the loss to substantiate an insurance claim I would expect the police to record it but otherwise there's little point as there's nothing they can usefully do following your carelessness. 

ButterCheese

Police will call it "not a crime" because it would make no sense for them to look into it.  They'd stand no chance of getting it back, even if the bus had CCTV.  For all you know, a person could have picked it up and took it home for safe keeping, put it on a local FB page asking "does this belong to anyone?" and had no reply.  Or they may have taken it to cash converters.  It was probably stolen, but everyone involved can not be bothered looking into it because any number of things could have happened to it.  The bus company does not want to look into it in case it was one of their staff, which would make them look bad.

When I was youth hostelling in Australia, a friend had their camera stolen by a bloke who entered the property to sell someone drugs.  The police didn't want to know then either, their advice was to keep a look out for it at a second hand shop, but that the guy had probably just sold it.  We even knew who person A was, who bought drugs off person B, but they didn't even speak to person A.  

DullGreyGuy

Jimifan said:

Just interested to hear others' point of view.
In my book, if someone takes something which does not belong to them, that is theft.
Some years ago now while I was on holiday I left my camera on the bus seat.
I realised as soon as I got off but couldn't chase the bus so called into their office to tell them.
I called in every day for a week to see whether it had been handed in but it wasn't.
So I went to the police station to report it stolen. They said it wasn't theft so it wasn't a crime.
Now in my book, if someone finds something and knows it's not theirs, makes no effort to hand it in to the police or lost property but keeps it for themselves (or sells it) that is stealing.

You were on holiday where? 

It was lost property initially. If you find something that isnt yours then you should make reasonable efforts to return it to the owner but unless its got some form of personal information on it its next to impossible to do so.  There is no legal requirement for it to be handed to the police in the UK, though that is one mechanism you could do as reasonable efforts. In fact if you follow the Met Police's "what to do if I've found lost property" only if you select it was found in a public place and state its high value does it say to take it to the police. On transport, in a private place, in a cab etc they dont tell you to tell the police. 

If it does make it to the police they hold it for 6 weeks, and certainly for the Met, then either dispose of it or sell it depending on what the item is

Mr.Generous

Theft by finding would still be theft, but we don't know that happened. A cleaner might have found it and assumed a broken item left and threw it in the rubbish. The issue is I guess, you have no proof of theft with a lost item. 

Voyager2002

In any case, insurance would not cover the loss of an unattended valuable.

XRS200

Jimifan said:

Just interested to hear others' point of view.
In my book, if someone takes something which does not belong to them, that is theft.
Some years ago now while I was on holiday I left my camera on the bus seat.
I realised as soon as I got off but couldn't chase the bus so called into their office to tell them.
I called in every day for a week to see whether it had been handed in but it wasn't.
So I went to the police station to report it stolen. They said it wasn't theft so it wasn't a crime.
Now in my book, if someone finds something and knows it's not theirs, makes no effort to hand it in to the police or lost property but keeps it for themselves (or sells it) that is stealing.

The definition of theft is taking with the intent of permanently depriving.

I reckon the police were right at the time - theft may have occurred afterwards though.

All you know is you left it on a bus, you don't what happened after.

Newbie_John

To complicate matters, these are T&C from TFL website:

All unclaimed lost property is typically held for approximately three months, although this can be extended in some circumstances. Any unclaimed items become the legal property of TfL after a period of three months from the date they are handed in. Items can then be sold, donated, recycled, reused or destroyed.

Imagine losing a mobile phone, I would imagine they find hundreds of them a day, then you would need to prove it's yours - purchase receipt, prove you lost it, wait for them to find it.. then pay £20 fee for keeping the item in Lost Property Office, then get it back 😅

Hoenir

Jimifan said:

Some years ago now while I was on holiday I left my camera on the bus seat.

Why does it still rile you now?