Highly unfair stamp duty 2nd property charge

caprikid1

p00hsticks said:

I'm not an expert but if you have just sold your main residence (that you own) in order to buy the new property then I don't think you'll have to pay the additional SDLT, although I'm not sure how much of a gap you are allowed to have between selling and buying (if you'd bought then sold within three years then you'd have had to pay it but could reclaim it when competing the new purchase - I don't know how it works the other way round . 

I agree, this has the hint of an exempt transaction to me.

Fatherted0611

Bookworm225 said:

Fatherted0611 said:

@SDLT_Geek So. I have sold my house in the last month, just with my partner now whilst the new purchase goes through(in the early stages, so this was a shock). So even though I'm on the title deeds of the original property from 2003, can I still apply for a refund under the 3 year rule? I have a letter drafted for SDLT. My solicitor said I'm on deeds anywhere, the 2nd property charge will apply.
If I have to pay in the first instance, am I likely to be able to claim back?

please confirm order of events: have you completed the purchase of the new place with the new partner before the sale of the old house?

if yes, then provided the sold property was lived in by you as your main home you would have to pay higher rate on purchase of the new one, but would be entitled to claim the refund 

if no, any this the sale happens on or before the date of completion of the purchase of the new, you would not pay higher rate at all on the new purchase.

the fact you still own a share of the ex partner's property is not the primary factor in this case, it is are replacing ("disposing of" ie selling) an existing home and therefore the total number of properties you own will not increase.

Thankyou. No, we're just in the early stages of purchase, my house sale completed 4 weeks ago. So the fact I'm on title deeds on an old property doesn't apply?

I'm reviewing the stamp duty form and it says.....

"

For the purposes of calculating stump due to land tax please state whether you now own or have ever owned any property anywhere in the world if yes please provide the address below and state whether or not this property will be sold on orbefore completion of your new purchase if no please also clearly state this in the box below

 

 From 1st of April 2016 the 3% SDLT surcharge applies where a purchaser owns more than one residential property at the end of the day of its purchase there are some exceptions which we will consider when all of your circumstances are known.

On that basis I am so confused lol

anselld

Fatherted0611 said:

Bookworm225 said:

Fatherted0611 said:

@SDLT_Geek So. I have sold my house in the last month, just with my partner now whilst the new purchase goes through(in the early stages, so this was a shock). So even though I'm on the title deeds of the original property from 2003, can I still apply for a refund under the 3 year rule? I have a letter drafted for SDLT. My solicitor said I'm on deeds anywhere, the 2nd property charge will apply.
If I have to pay in the first instance, am I likely to be able to claim back?

please confirm order of events: have you completed the purchase of the new place with the new partner before the sale of the old house?

if yes, then provided the sold property was lived in by you as your main home you would have to pay higher rate on purchase of the new one, but would be entitled to claim the refund 

if no, any this the sale happens on or before the date of completion of the purchase of the new, you would not pay higher rate at all on the new purchase.

the fact you still own a share of the ex partner's property is not the primary factor in this case, it is are replacing ("disposing of" ie selling) an existing home and therefore the total number of properties you own will not increase.

Thankyou. No, we're just in the early stages of purchase, my house sale completed 4 weeks ago. So the fact I'm on title deeds on an old property doesn't apply?

I'm reviewing the stamp duty form and it says.....

"

For the purposes of calculating stump due to land tax please state whether you now own or have ever owned any property anywhere in the world if yes please provide the address below and state whether or not this property will be sold on orbefore completion of your new purchase if no please also clearly state this in the box below

 

 From 1st of April 2016 the 3% SDLT surcharge applies where a purchaser owns more than one residential property at the end of the day of its purchase there are some exceptions which we will consider when all of your circumstances are known.

On that basis I am so confused lol

Just tell your solicitor you are replacing your main residence and give them the details of your recent sale if they do not already have it.  If they still think you owe the 3% surcharge then get another solicitor.

Fatherted0611

anselld said:

Fatherted0611 said:

Bookworm225 said:

Fatherted0611 said:

@SDLT_Geek So. I have sold my house in the last month, just with my partner now whilst the new purchase goes through(in the early stages, so this was a shock). So even though I'm on the title deeds of the original property from 2003, can I still apply for a refund under the 3 year rule? I have a letter drafted for SDLT. My solicitor said I'm on deeds anywhere, the 2nd property charge will apply.
If I have to pay in the first instance, am I likely to be able to claim back?

please confirm order of events: have you completed the purchase of the new place with the new partner before the sale of the old house?

if yes, then provided the sold property was lived in by you as your main home you would have to pay higher rate on purchase of the new one, but would be entitled to claim the refund 

if no, any this the sale happens on or before the date of completion of the purchase of the new, you would not pay higher rate at all on the new purchase.

the fact you still own a share of the ex partner's property is not the primary factor in this case, it is are replacing ("disposing of" ie selling) an existing home and therefore the total number of properties you own will not increase.

Thankyou. No, we're just in the early stages of purchase, my house sale completed 4 weeks ago. So the fact I'm on title deeds on an old property doesn't apply?

I'm reviewing the stamp duty form and it says.....

"

For the purposes of calculating stump due to land tax please state whether you now own or have ever owned any property anywhere in the world if yes please provide the address below and state whether or not this property will be sold on orbefore completion of your new purchase if no please also clearly state this in the box below

 

 From 1st of April 2016 the 3% SDLT surcharge applies where a purchaser owns more than one residential property at the end of the day of its purchase there are some exceptions which we will consider when all of your circumstances are known.

On that basis I am so confused lol

Just tell your solicitor you are replacing your main residence and give them the details of your recent sale if they do not already have it.  If they still think you owe the 3% surcharge then get another solicitor.

They sold it for me lol

sheramber

Fatherted0611 said:

Bookworm225 said:

Fatherted0611 said:

@SDLT_Geek So. I have sold my house in the last month, just with my partner now whilst the new purchase goes through(in the early stages, so this was a shock). So even though I'm on the title deeds of the original property from 2003, can I still apply for a refund under the 3 year rule? I have a letter drafted for SDLT. My solicitor said I'm on deeds anywhere, the 2nd property charge will apply.
If I have to pay in the first instance, am I likely to be able to claim back?

please confirm order of events: have you completed the purchase of the new place with the new partner before the sale of the old house?

if yes, then provided the sold property was lived in by you as your main home you would have to pay higher rate on purchase of the new one, but would be entitled to claim the refund 

if no, any this the sale happens on or before the date of completion of the purchase of the new, you would not pay higher rate at all on the new purchase.

the fact you still own a share of the ex partner's property is not the primary factor in this case, it is are replacing ("disposing of" ie selling) an existing home and therefore the total number of properties you own will not increase.

Thankyou. No, we're just in the early stages of purchase, my house sale completed 4 weeks ago. So the fact I'm on title deeds on an old property doesn't apply?

I'm reviewing the stamp duty form and it says.....

"

For the purposes of calculating stump due to land tax please state whether you now own or have ever owned any property anywhere in the world if yes please provide the address below and state whether or not this property will be sold on orbefore completion of your new purchase if no please also clearly state this in the box below

 

 From 1st of April 2016 the 3% SDLT surcharge applies where a purchaser owns more than one residential property at the end of the day of its purchase there are some exceptions which we will consider when all of your circumstances are known.

On that basis I am so confused lol

Your situation is one of the exceptions mentioned above.

housebuyer143

Fatherted0611 said:

anselld said:

Fatherted0611 said:

Bookworm225 said:

Fatherted0611 said:

@SDLT_Geek So. I have sold my house in the last month, just with my partner now whilst the new purchase goes through(in the early stages, so this was a shock). So even though I'm on the title deeds of the original property from 2003, can I still apply for a refund under the 3 year rule? I have a letter drafted for SDLT. My solicitor said I'm on deeds anywhere, the 2nd property charge will apply.
If I have to pay in the first instance, am I likely to be able to claim back?

please confirm order of events: have you completed the purchase of the new place with the new partner before the sale of the old house?

if yes, then provided the sold property was lived in by you as your main home you would have to pay higher rate on purchase of the new one, but would be entitled to claim the refund 

if no, any this the sale happens on or before the date of completion of the purchase of the new, you would not pay higher rate at all on the new purchase.

the fact you still own a share of the ex partner's property is not the primary factor in this case, it is are replacing ("disposing of" ie selling) an existing home and therefore the total number of properties you own will not increase.

Thankyou. No, we're just in the early stages of purchase, my house sale completed 4 weeks ago. So the fact I'm on title deeds on an old property doesn't apply?

I'm reviewing the stamp duty form and it says.....

"

For the purposes of calculating stump due to land tax please state whether you now own or have ever owned any property anywhere in the world if yes please provide the address below and state whether or not this property will be sold on orbefore completion of your new purchase if no please also clearly state this in the box below

 

 From 1st of April 2016 the 3% SDLT surcharge applies where a purchaser owns more than one residential property at the end of the day of its purchase there are some exceptions which we will consider when all of your circumstances are known.

On that basis I am so confused lol

Just tell your solicitor you are replacing your main residence and give them the details of your recent sale if they do not already have it.  If they still think you owe the 3% surcharge then get another solicitor.

They sold it for me lol

If they make you pay it, you can put in a claim for it back immediately after you buy.
Honestly though, they shouldn't be making you pay it at all.

Bookworm225

Fatherted0611 said:

Bookworm225 said:

Fatherted0611 said:

@SDLT_Geek So. I have sold my house in the last month, just with my partner now whilst the new purchase goes through(in the early stages, so this was a shock). So even though I'm on the title deeds of the original property from 2003, can I still apply for a refund under the 3 year rule? I have a letter drafted for SDLT. My solicitor said I'm on deeds anywhere, the 2nd property charge will apply.
If I have to pay in the first instance, am I likely to be able to claim back?

please confirm order of events: have you completed the purchase of the new place with the new partner before the sale of the old house?

if yes, then provided the sold property was lived in by you as your main home you would have to pay higher rate on purchase of the new one, but would be entitled to claim the refund 

if no, any this the sale happens on or before the date of completion of the purchase of the new, you would not pay higher rate at all on the new purchase.

the fact you still own a share of the ex partner's property is not the primary factor in this case, it is are replacing ("disposing of" ie selling) an existing home and therefore the total number of properties you own will not increase.

Thankyou. No, we're just in the early stages of purchase, my house sale completed 4 weeks ago. So the fact I'm on title deeds on an old property doesn't apply?

I'm reviewing the stamp duty form and it says.....

"

For the purposes of calculating stump due to land tax please state whether you now own or have ever owned any property anywhere in the world if yes please provide the address below and state whether or not this property will be sold on orbefore completion of your new purchase if no please also clearly state this in the box below

 

 From 1st of April 2016 the 3% SDLT surcharge applies where a purchaser owns more than one residential property at the end of the day of its purchase there are some exceptions which we will consider when all of your circumstances are known.

On that basis I am so confused lol

we need precise details please because there is a tad more to it than just disregarding your ownership of a property with your ex.

• what is your current marital status? 
• you have already sold a property, so where are you living now and who owns the place you have been residing in for the last 4 weeks ?
• and, most importantly, when was the last time you lived in the now sold property as your only/main home?

I am disappointed that your solicitor has not given you cast iron instruction on this as it is very simple to resolve once all the facts are known. It is all about "Condition D" and whether the now sold property was your main residence (hence the significance of the now 4 week time gap and your current marital status)

SDLTM09800 - SDLT - higher rates for additional dwellings: Condition D - general - Para 3(6) Sch 4ZA FA2003 - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK

theartfullodger

Unfair??  It's well outlined in the legislation and related explanations.  Given that, it appears to me no more unfair than any other tax - CT, Income T (brought in to pay for fighting the french), VaT, IHT etc etc etc etc... but other views are available. (I've had to pay all of those I've noted, didn't enjoy doing so for any of them but in all cases it was largely my actions that caused my bills. And, IMHO, my fault for not enjoying the benefits of any legal and fair avoidance routes.

Best wishes to all.

Grumpy_chap

Fatherted0611 said:

Please help. I purchased a property with a previous partner 21 years ago. We split up shortly after, and I moved out. I have not lived in the property for over 20 years, I have paid nothing towards the house for the same time, am though obviously on the title deeds. The SDLT implications of me now buying a new house with my partner push the figure from £1670 to £12095 which is devastating. The added complications are she claimed 7 years ago she was terminally ill and wanted to get me off, but obviously would require her own mortgage to do so, and didn't. The cherry on the cake, is she had a 2nd charge added from legal aid following divorce(which I've just found out). All in all an absolute disaster of a situation.  Any help would be massively appreciated.

As an aside, if you have (part-)owned a property for the past 20 years that you have not lived in, if that is now liable for CGT when eventually sold, that may well dwarf any second property land tax.
Really, as someone else has mentioned, this should have been broken away from 20 years back.  The second best time to make the break would be now.

Fatherted0611

Bookworm225 said:

Fatherted0611 said:

Bookworm225 said:

Fatherted0611 said:

@SDLT_Geek So. I have sold my house in the last month, just with my partner now whilst the new purchase goes through(in the early stages, so this was a shock). So even though I'm on the title deeds of the original property from 2003, can I still apply for a refund under the 3 year rule? I have a letter drafted for SDLT. My solicitor said I'm on deeds anywhere, the 2nd property charge will apply.
If I have to pay in the first instance, am I likely to be able to claim back?

please confirm order of events: have you completed the purchase of the new place with the new partner before the sale of the old house?

if yes, then provided the sold property was lived in by you as your main home you would have to pay higher rate on purchase of the new one, but would be entitled to claim the refund 

if no, any this the sale happens on or before the date of completion of the purchase of the new, you would not pay higher rate at all on the new purchase.

the fact you still own a share of the ex partner's property is not the primary factor in this case, it is are replacing ("disposing of" ie selling) an existing home and therefore the total number of properties you own will not increase.

Thankyou. No, we're just in the early stages of purchase, my house sale completed 4 weeks ago. So the fact I'm on title deeds on an old property doesn't apply?

I'm reviewing the stamp duty form and it says.....

"

For the purposes of calculating stump due to land tax please state whether you now own or have ever owned any property anywhere in the world if yes please provide the address below and state whether or not this property will be sold on orbefore completion of your new purchase if no please also clearly state this in the box below

 

 From 1st of April 2016 the 3% SDLT surcharge applies where a purchaser owns more than one residential property at the end of the day of its purchase there are some exceptions which we will consider when all of your circumstances are known.

On that basis I am so confused lol

we need precise details please because there is a tad more to it than just disregarding your ownership of a property with your ex.

• what is your current marital status? 
• you have already sold a property, so where are you living now and who owns the place you have been residing in for the last 4 weeks ?
• and, most importantly, when was the last time you lived in the now sold property as your only/main home?

I am disappointed that your solicitor has not given you cast iron instruction on this as it is very simple to resolve once all the facts are known. It is all about "Condition D" and whether the now sold property was your main residence (hence the significance of the now 4 week time gap and your current marital status)

Hi. Thanks for your response.

My marital status is single(living with partner), never married, so never divorced.

The house I sold was my primary residence as it had been for a number of years. I was living there up to the date of sale.

I am now living in my partner's house(whom the proposed purchase is with) It is her only property, it is solely in her name.

What will this information mean, as section D is confusing me. Thanks