Offering to rent a house pending completion of sale

eddddy

FlorayG said:

Absolutely no. That's a ploy bad landlords used to use, so it was made illegal. You can't sign away your tenant's rights.

There might be a way around it if the vendors were to make it an AirBnB/holiday let and let it to you on a monthly renewing basis, but I'm not sure of the legal requirements of that. You could look into it

Holiday lets are also a ploy bad landlords used to use.

In simple terms, if the occupier isn't occupying the property for the purposes of a holiday, it isn't a holiday let - irrelevant of whatever agreement the occupier has signed, etc.

A key question is whether the property owner and occupant both know that it's not really a holiday let, and "does the occupant have a permanent residence elsewhere?" If they have a permanent residence elsewhere, it's more likely that a court would agree that it's a holiday let. But the OP won't have a permanent residence elsewhere, which makes it more likely that a court would say it's not a holiday let - it's a tenancy.

So it's still potentially risky for the property owner.

FlorayG

eddddy said:

FlorayG said:

Absolutely no. That's a ploy bad landlords used to use, so it was made illegal. You can't sign away your tenant's rights.

There might be a way around it if the vendors were to make it an AirBnB/holiday let and let it to you on a monthly renewing basis, but I'm not sure of the legal requirements of that. You could look into it

Holiday lets are also a ploy bad landlords used to use.

In simple terms, if the occupier isn't occupying the property for the purposes of a holiday, it isn't a holiday let - irrelevant of whatever agreement the occupier has signed, etc.


So it's still potentially risky for the property owner.

nevertheless it happens all the time - my current lodger moved here for her job, had nowhere to live, stayed in AirBnB until she found lodgings, clearly she was not 'on holiday' and had nowhere else to live

saajan_12

Pat38493 said:

FlorayG said:

The problem here is that the landlord can't evict you after 6 months - they can only advise you of intention to proceed with eviction notice, which can take a FURTHER six months or more. If you decide to withdraw from the sale, they then have tenants who have nowhere else to go and now they can no longer market the house with vacant possession, considerably reducing its market value. Additionally the house owner has to instigate gas and electrical safety checks and set up a self-employed tax return with HMRC for the rent income. The house also has to have an EPC of D or better ( Does it?) All in all, a lot of trouble that may end up costing them more than leaving it empty

And we are not allowed to waive our rights in that respect i.e. waive our right to not be evicted for 6 months? 

We are already in a position where we need to move out in less than a month from now and we are fine with that, so it's no different.

No, arguably this is the downside of regulation. If your sale does fall through, the LL is prevented from getting you out until what could be 12 months after you moved in, meaning they'll be wary and could refuse something which would have worked great for both parties. So they suffer a void, you suffer an extra move, and overall there's an extra empty house. 

There is of course a good reason for such regulation, vulnerable people can't be pressured into waiving these rights. But this is how 'tenant rights' don't always serve the tenant. 

Mr.Generous

FlorayG said:

The problem here is that the landlord can't evict you after 6 months - they can only advise you of intention to proceed with eviction notice, which can take a FURTHER six months or more. If you decide to withdraw from the sale, they then have tenants who have nowhere else to go and now they can no longer market the house with vacant possession, considerably reducing its market value. Additionally the house owner has to instigate gas and electrical safety checks and set up a self-employed tax return with HMRC for the rent income. The house also has to have an EPC of D or better ( Does it?) All in all, a lot of trouble that may end up costing them more than leaving it empty

And more potential issues, a seller offered this to me once, his new home wasn't ready and I was buying to rent. Sound ok? On completion day I found out the shower wasn't working. Then the oven. Would the tenant have reported these "sudden failures" to the landlord? You bet. Any number of other issues you can't always spot on a viewing suddenly become your responsibility. Buying without vacant possesion would mean a different contract drawn up and my solicitor advised against it. The new house they were having building work on took 15 months to be habitable, the neighbors told me. I like to pick my tenants myself. The eviction process alone means I want to choose who lives there. You are probably 100% committed to the sale and the property but there are a lot of scammers about. Every time I show a rental property for potential tenants there is someone who is trying some sort of scam.

Pat38493

Mr.Generous said:

FlorayG said:

The problem here is that the landlord can't evict you after 6 months - they can only advise you of intention to proceed with eviction notice, which can take a FURTHER six months or more. If you decide to withdraw from the sale, they then have tenants who have nowhere else to go and now they can no longer market the house with vacant possession, considerably reducing its market value. Additionally the house owner has to instigate gas and electrical safety checks and set up a self-employed tax return with HMRC for the rent income. The house also has to have an EPC of D or better ( Does it?) All in all, a lot of trouble that may end up costing them more than leaving it empty

And more potential issues, a seller offered this to me once, his new home wasn't ready and I was buying to rent. Sound ok? On completion day I found out the shower wasn't working. Then the oven. Would the tenant have reported these "sudden failures" to the landlord? You bet. Any number of other issues you can't always spot on a viewing suddenly become your responsibility. Buying without vacant possesion would mean a different contract drawn up and my solicitor advised against it. The new house they were having building work on took 15 months to be habitable, the neighbors told me. I like to pick my tenants myself. The eviction process alone means I want to choose who lives there. You are probably 100% committed to the sale and the property but there are a lot of scammers about. Every time I show a rental property for potential tenants there is someone who is trying some sort of scam.

Seems like a probable no go in general then, but regarding the point on the oven / shower - in our situation if we purchase the house with vacant possession, if the shower and/or oven doesn't work there's not much we can realistically do about it - if the surveyor reported that they were working then in theory you might have some comeback but in practice they will just claim that it must have broken suddenly the day before you moved in.

FlorayG

Pat38493 said:

Mr.Generous said:

FlorayG said:

The problem here is that the landlord can't evict you after 6 months - they can only advise you of intention to proceed with eviction notice, which can take a FURTHER six months or more. If you decide to withdraw from the sale, they then have tenants who have nowhere else to go and now they can no longer market the house with vacant possession, considerably reducing its market value. Additionally the house owner has to instigate gas and electrical safety checks and set up a self-employed tax return with HMRC for the rent income. The house also has to have an EPC of D or better ( Does it?) All in all, a lot of trouble that may end up costing them more than leaving it empty

And more potential issues, a seller offered this to me once, his new home wasn't ready and I was buying to rent. Sound ok? On completion day I found out the shower wasn't working. Then the oven. Would the tenant have reported these "sudden failures" to the landlord? You bet. Any number of other issues you can't always spot on a viewing suddenly become your responsibility. Buying without vacant possesion would mean a different contract drawn up and my solicitor advised against it. The new house they were having building work on took 15 months to be habitable, the neighbors told me. I like to pick my tenants myself. The eviction process alone means I want to choose who lives there. You are probably 100% committed to the sale and the property but there are a lot of scammers about. Every time I show a rental property for potential tenants there is someone who is trying some sort of scam.

Seems like a probable no go in general then, but regarding the point on the oven / shower - in our situation if we purchase the house with vacant possession, if the shower and/or oven doesn't work there's not much we can realistically do about it - if the surveyor reported that they were working then in theory you might have some comeback but in practice they will just claim that it must have broken suddenly the day before you moved in.

What Mr Generous means is that if you are a tenant and find these things not working then your landlord is legally obliged to repair them. If you buy the house and they're not working that's your problem. So if you rent before buying, the vendor ends up doing the repairs