NI Gaps and no information in defails 1980-1990s

noideapleasehelp

Hello
I got my state pension forecast online which suggests when I retire age 66.6 in 2027, I will not qualify for the full state pension.  I have gaps and online, there is no information against those gaps.  I have evidence that at least 2 years of full-time employment were not added.  Is this likely because HMRC was paper based? When did records go on computer? I have evidence of previous years payslips and contributions.  Is it worth contacting HMRC with this information and could this make a difference?  Should I contact them first and ask for whatever information they have for me for 1980s and 1990s?  I was contracted out 2005-2016 so I'm thinking because there is nothing I can do about that and it means I'll get a lower pension, it might be worth me contacting HMRC with the info I have even though it'll be loads of photocopying.  Is there an easier way i.e. can you upload scanned copies?
Thank you to all in advance for any assistance.

molerat

What does your forecast show in the big green box and does it state that you can improve on that in the text below ?

What does your forecast show for amount up to April 2024 ?

How many full years are showing 2015-16 and earlier ?

How many full years re showing 2016-17 and later ?

Does your forecast mention contracting out ? - if i does click here https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/check-your-state-pension/account/cope whilst logged into your tax account to find your COPE amount

Which years are showing as gaps ?

Which years that are showing as gaps do you have proof of employment for ?

noideapleasehelp

Hi Molerat
Thank you for your response.

Green Banner says:

Your forecast is £220.08 a week, £956.96 a month, £11,483.46 a year

Estimate based on your National Insurance record up to 5 April 2025

£213.50 a week

Forecast if you contribute until 5 April 2026

£220.08 a week

£220.08 is the most you can get

How many full years are showing 2015-16 and earlier ? 23

How many full years re showing 2016-17 and later ? 9 will be 11 when I retire

Yes forecast says You’ve been in a contracted-out pension scheme.

I was contracted-out 2005-2015/16

No COPE info is mentioned on the forecast

Which years are showing as gaps ?

1979 1980

1980 1981 --> evidence but not a full-year

1981 1982 --> evidence but not a full-year 

1982 1983 --> evidence but not a full-year

1986 1987 --> evidence full year

1987 1988 --> evidence 85%  year

1997 1998 --> evidence full year

1998 1999 --> evidence full year

Other gaps in 1990s due to being overseas and nothing I can do about that.

molerat

The only ones that are worth anything are the ones that will give a full year but those 3 are (more than) enough to get you a full pension combined with what you have and 25-26.  

In the first instance I would suggest to speaking to the NI general enquiry help line 0300 200 3500.  They are very busy at the moment so the best chance to contact them would be phoning at dead on 8am.  Going straight in with a written enquiry would take many months for it to be even looked at.  Do your documents show NI being deducted ?

How many full years re showing 2016-17 and later ? 9 will be 11 when I retire

You will only get 1 more year, 25-26

Yes forecast says You’ve been in a contracted-out pension scheme.

I was contracted-out 2005-2015/16

No COPE info is mentioned on the forecast

If you click on that link I posted whilst logged in to your tax account it should show your COPE although it is of no real relevance as your old rules amount exceeds the full pre COPE new rules amount anyway.

noideapleasehelp

Hi Molerat
Thanks for the link.  Says:

Contracted Out Pension Equivalent (COPE)

Your COPE estimate is £27.05 a week

This will not affect your State Pension forecast.
Yes, info I have shows NI deductions.
So probably I will need to carry on working and defer my state pension to compensate for COPE?
Do you know why they've not got anything against details for 1980s and 1990s for the non-full years?  Did they lose paper records or were they destroyed?  When did they put records on computer?

molerat

You do not need to do anything to compensate for COPE as that only reduced your new rules pension calculation at April 2016.  Your old rules calculation was higher than the new before any COPE reduction anyway,  your shortfall is due to the pre 2016 gaps.  I believe NI records were computerised from 1975 which is why us oldies have "Our records show you have x full years up to 5 April 1975" showing on our NI record.  If there is nothing showing then they simply have no record of you contributing NI, that could be for any number of reasons including a wrong NI number being used by your employer - do your records show an NI number ?

noideapleasehelp

Hi Molerat
I can't thank you enough for your very quick responses.
Yes, you are absolutely right, it seems that my NI numbers for the years I have evidence for are either TN and date of birth with F for female, or a totally randomly generated number, or in some cases, 1 digit is out on my actual NI number for a company I worked with for many years, so has been presumably credited elsewhere?  Can't believe I still have some payslips from the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s because I'm not normally that organised (very few P60s though) and in my younger years I wasn't good at looking into the future.  I also have info from local tax offices saying "we've got this from x employer but don't have a proper NI number" and those amounts are thousands each year.  I did contact my empoyers about it at the time but seems that might have got lost in physical paperwork maybe or not past on.  My younger self wasn't good at checking such things and probably was only interested in getting money to pay the rent, have fun, etc and I can honestly say, it wasn't till I dug these things out this weekend because of the impending closeness of retirement, and Martin Lewis banging on about pensions contribution opportunity due to the change for those with gaps from 2006 (which doesn't apply to me), that I even realised how bad my younger self had been at understanding the importance of checking my payslips!

BIG Note to anyone reading this post who thinks there's no lessons to learn: check your payslips every month and keep a physical copy!  My current employer has everything online, and I kept copies on my computer.  I did a backup regularly, but my hard drive died and couldn't be recovered, and because my backup also failed, I lost those records and don't have a hardcopy and can't get back those hard copies of P60s from 10 years ago because they only keep 7 years of records.  Another lesson learnt.

It's been a strange weekend looking into all of this. When young, perhaps like many now, I worked for lots of different temp agencies for at least 6 years whilst doing loads of second bar jobs etc.  And luckily, because I had an early word processor, I kept a record of exactly what temp agency I worked for and exact dates which I had regularly printed out until 1990s.  If I hadn't had that info, I wouldn't have been able to recall most of it and put together a picture of what my employement was for real.  I'd got copies of old CVs which also helped, but like many I left out gaps and didn't put exact dates.  I guess for some reason I may have thought the govt had got this all recorded.  So yes, anyone reading this with kids and grandchildren, do encourage them to keep computer and physical records and why it's important as the govt records should be good now but probably aren't so having a back-up with which to argue your case is a good thing.

Like many of us, when I was a teenager back in the 70s, the future seemed inifinite and being "old" didn't seem to be something I needed to be concerned about as I think I thought with everything going on with Russia and potential nuclear war etc (which was on advertised via our black and white TV and sent through post boxes about the 4 minute warning) ... I know I thought at that time I wouldn't live this long.

Note to all those who have kids and grandchildren: I've learnt that when looking back on this stuff, it seems like only yesterday I was 22!  And I can't believe I'm now about to hit 65.  And I wish my younger self had been more aware of being old in the future and had kept paperwork to prove my employment history and checked stuff at the time and not relied on government records.

Apologies Molerat for going down memory lane but hope that this helps others. And thank you again for your help Molerat particularly understanding the COPE thing which I think many are struggling with.

All the best to you and everyone out there.

And, of course, thank you to Martin Lewis for constantly highlighting the issues with the change of State Pension and encouraging people like me to get our forecast and check it!!
       

Silvertabby

it seems that my NI numbers for the years I have evidence for are either TN and date of birth with F for female, or a totally randomly generated number, or in some cases, 1 digit is out on my actual NI number for a company I worked with for many years, so has been presumably credited elsewhere? 

TN stands for Temporary Number and is, as you have said, TN/DOB/F.  This should be for in-house payroll and pension use only, with final notifications to HMRC/DWP being held back until the correct NI number could be quoted.  As the 1950s were a baby boom period, it's likely that you share your exact DOB with as many as 800 other females, so linking your NI contributions to the correct record would be a task and a half.  

The 1 digit out scenario is possibly a little more hopeful, as at least you have a number to quote.   

All I can suggest is that you send copies (not your only originals !) of all your paperwork to HMRC, highlighting the TN, random and incorrect numbers with their corresponding payments and employers.  Don't forget to include full details of any surname changes.  

But, I'm afraid I have to say that I wouldn't be hopeful of a good result in view of the time lapse,  

noideapleasehelp

Thank you Silvertabby