Deposit requested for a 2-storey side extension

pezza1972

Doozergirl said:

I really don't think that's okay.  

But let's give them the benefit of the doubt.  When is work starting?  How long before the work starting are you required to pay the deposit? 

What do they say the deposit is for? 

Have they produced a contract?  What kind of contract is it? 

What do stage payments look like after the deposit is paid? 

Where did you find the builder and what due diligence have you done on them?  Are they a member of the FMB, for example, and have been properly vetted and inspected?  

So work will probably be starting tomorrow.  Only thing that would stop that is building control (me not being happy for them to start yet) and so deposit will be when they are/have started.

When they first advised there would be a deposit (they never originally said how much and to be fair, I never asked.  We have been 6 years waiting for this so now it is all starting, it all seems fast LOL) they said it was to cover materials needed to start.  They never said specifically but I also assume that as they are more project managers there would be cost associated with them aligning trade people, but I am just guessing here.

There isn't a contract yet but I intended to get that tomorrow when they turn up, as this will be needed as the council are involved here in part of this as part of a DFG, so that will happen.  That was also discussed at a prior meeting where the DFG Manager attended and they were onboard with that.

Builders are locally recommended and whilst not a big company, they do have a local site on Facebook (yes I know!) and the reviews on there, coupled with local reviews (family also had work done by them) and the fact that they came back with a price that I could at least afford, and that they weren't making me wait another 12 months before they could start were all factors on my choosing them.  They are on Companies House and all accounts etc are up to date.  I did a search on FMB and they do not appear to be there, but would that automatically be a red flag??  Should this be a minimum for all respected traders?

MysteryMe

You should really have the contract inc terms and conditions plus payment schedule in advance, not the day they turn up. How are you able to make an informed decision if you have not had a chance to read through the documents.

Doozergirl

pezza1972 said:

Doozergirl said:

I really don't think that's okay.  

But let's give them the benefit of the doubt.  When is work starting?  How long before the work starting are you required to pay the deposit? 

What do they say the deposit is for? 

Have they produced a contract?  What kind of contract is it? 

What do stage payments look like after the deposit is paid? 

Where did you find the builder and what due diligence have you done on them?  Are they a member of the FMB, for example, and have been properly vetted and inspected?  

So work will probably be starting tomorrow.  Only thing that would stop that is building control (me not being happy for them to start yet) and so deposit will be when they are/have started.

When they first advised there would be a deposit (they never originally said how much and to be fair, I never asked.  We have been 6 years waiting for this so now it is all starting, it all seems fast LOL) they said it was to cover materials needed to start.  They never said specifically but I also assume that as they are more project managers there would be cost associated with them aligning trade people, but I am just guessing here.

There isn't a contract yet but I intended to get that tomorrow when they turn up, as this will be needed as the council are involved here in part of this as part of a DFG, so that will happen.  That was also discussed at a prior meeting where the DFG Manager attended and they were onboard with that.

Builders are locally recommended and whilst not a big company, they do have a local site on Facebook (yes I know!) and the reviews on there, coupled with local reviews (family also had work done by them) and the fact that they came back with a price that I could at least afford, and that they weren't making me wait another 12 months before they could start were all factors on my choosing them.  They are on Companies House and all accounts etc are up to date.  I did a search on FMB and they do not appear to be there, but would that automatically be a red flag??  Should this be a minimum for all respected traders?

So many red flags in here.  

You are building a two storey extension.  That takes time.  A builder shouldn't need 25% for materials up front. And why are they telling you a matter of a couple of days before the start? 

You then have no contract and no payment schedule.    That doesn't protect either of you.  

Builders should not be turning up on day one with one.   There are so many logistics to organise for day one, the contract should have been done before.  Any contract signed at your house is subject to a 14 day cooling off period - you're not going to get that.  It is okay to sign a waiver to that 14 day period but I don't understand how you can make any sensible decision when they're rolling the cement mixer through the door and a mechanical digger? 

A big red flag here is the fact in combination with the above, the driver for you here has been price and their availability, (when other quotes have been higher? Do you have other quotes?) This often overrides quality or can point to things being missed in the quote.  How comprehensive is your quote? 

What work did your family have done?  Was it similar at least and an extension? 

Being a FMB member isn't a prerequisite, but anyone in this country can call themselves a builder.  What the FMB do is allows builders to be accredited and have their work independently inspected, in the absence of regulation under the law.  The FMB provides them with a proper contract to give to you(!), a Trading Standards registered service to mediate between you if things do get tense, and a monitoring service to ensure they're worthy of the badge.  "Trustmark" is also often required by councils on for builders working on adaptations for the disabled, and FMB membership is one of the only ways to get that.  None of that is expensive for them and the support is particularly helpful when a builder is good at building and not at admin. 

Is the DFG manager actually overseeing this or  have they just ticked a box to say that there will be a contract? Because having sight of it would be the most sensible way of checking that... I'm not sure they're providing you 

I don't mean to alarm you.  Whilst nothing means that they aren't trustworthy (the Companies House thing is at least some reassurance) you've done nothing to protect yourself and used the word 'assume' quite a lot.  They way they've decided to protect themselves is to take a massive wad of cash from you... 

I do understand if there might be some delays for the DFG payments then this deposit is their way of checking you're 'good for it' and gives them a buffer, but 25% isn't exactly scientific.  If you're not paying VAT then this can affect their cashflow negatively, but the most basic thing to do here is lay it all out in a simple contract.  

SadieO

We recently had an extension and paid nothing upfront. I paid them weekly, with the first payment at the end of the first week.

Risteard

Doozergirl said:

I really don't think that's okay.  

But let's give them the benefit of the doubt.  When is work starting?  How long before the work starting are you required to pay the deposit? 

What do they say the deposit is for? 

Have they produced a contract?  What kind of contract is it? 

What do stage payments look like after the deposit is paid? 

Where did you find the builder and what due diligence have you done on them?  Are they a member of the FMB, for example, and have been properly vetted and inspected?  

Of course a deposit is justified.

grumpy_codger

Risteard said:

Doozergirl said:

I really don't think that's okay.  

But let's give them the benefit of the doubt.  When is work starting?  How long before the work starting are you required to pay the deposit? 

What do they say the deposit is for? 

Have they produced a contract?  What kind of contract is it? 

What do stage payments look like after the deposit is paid? 

Where did you find the builder and what due diligence have you done on them?  Are they a member of the FMB, for example, and have been properly vetted and inspected?  

Of course a deposit is justified.

Who said that it wasn't?
The question was whether the amount was justified given that a customer has almost no comeback against a builder if the latter disappears with the money.

comeandgo

Risteard said:

Doozergirl said:

I really don't think that's okay.  

But let's give them the benefit of the doubt.  When is work starting?  How long before the work starting are you required to pay the deposit? 

What do they say the deposit is for? 

Have they produced a contract?  What kind of contract is it? 

What do stage payments look like after the deposit is paid? 

Where did you find the builder and what due diligence have you done on them?  Are they a member of the FMB, for example, and have been properly vetted and inspected?  

Of course a deposit is justified.

I’d say no, a deposit is not justified if you are using a steady, well established company.  Many new starts or dodgy companies will try and request deposits for whatever reason but I’d say it’s bad management to need a deposit.  ( Years and years of being involved in the civil and building trades with many family members still running their own businesses, so I do have some working knowledge).