Studio flat, heating & water, should I go all electric or keep gas?

Sutton11

I have a small studio flat I rent out.  Currently it has gas fire (70’s type) in lounge/bedroom and a gas hob & electric oven.  No central heating and water heated by electric immersion. Shower electric. I have installed good quality electric radiator in lounge.  Flat has 3 rooms longe/sleeping, kitchen, bathroom. On 3rd floor and flat above, no damp.  Immersion tank currently in internal cupboard but kitchen has pantry with external wall and close to gas meter.

Tennant is paying gas & electric bills with standing charges.  I want to ensure occupier has a warm nice home but also not wasting money on bills.  Tennant reported they were not cold over winter. My thoughts are…

1, take out gas supply, install electric hob & electric towel rail to bathroom. Keep immersion.
2, put in gas combi and remove immersion tank, install central heating radiator in lounge & towel rail to bathroom keep electric shower over bath.  Maybe radiator in kitchen but tight for wall space.
3, is there a more efficient way to stay all electric? 

Any thoughts or feedback on which option is better are gratefully received.  Thank you!

ChaunceyGardiner

If you’re concerned about your tenant’s bills, installing an electric radiator, good quality or otherwise, was not the way to go. A much more efficient way to stay all electric is to fit a heat pump. Alternatively, storage heating on Economy 7 or a similar tariff would likely be much cheaper to run than the current arrangement.

DullGreyGuy

Sutton11 said:

I have a small studio flat I rent out.  Currently it has gas fire (70’s type) in lounge/bedroom and a gas hob & electric oven.  No central heating and water heated by electric immersion. Shower electric. I have installed good quality electric radiator in lounge.  Flat has 3 rooms longe/sleeping, kitchen, bathroom. On 3rd floor and flat above, no damp.  Immersion tank currently in internal cupboard but kitchen has pantry with external wall and close to gas meter.

Tennant is paying gas & electric bills with standing charges.  I want to ensure occupier has a warm nice home but also not wasting money on bills.  Tennant reported they were not cold over winter. My thoughts are…

1, take out gas supply, install electric hob & electric towel rail to bathroom. Keep immersion.
2, put in gas combi and remove immersion tank, install central heating radiator in lounge & towel rail to bathroom keep electric shower over bath.  Maybe radiator in kitchen but tight for wall space.
3, is there a more efficient way to stay all electric? 

Any thoughts or feedback on which option is better are gratefully received.  Thank you!

What are your plans for the flat?

Certainly around here there is a strong desire for flats with gas rather than all electric which unfortunately are the minority of the properties. 

Electric will be more expensive for them to run so confused by what you are trying to achieve? 

What's the heating solution for the main room in option 1? 

MikeyPGT

As a tenant in a one bedroom flat I would love it if my landlord ditched the gas supply!  I pay £10 a month for the pleasure of having gas which is way too expensive to use for heating and not actually that efficient either.  If the flat is well insulated I'd go for option 1 - a quick blast with an electric fan heater or oil filled radiators for background heat and a TOU tariff like Agile works for me.

MikeJXE

MikeyPGT said:

As a tenant in a one bedroom flat I would love it if my landlord ditched the gas supply!  I pay £10 a month for the pleasure of having gas which is way too expensive to use for heating and not actually that efficient either.  If the flat is well insulated I'd go for option 1 - a quick blast with an electric fan heater or oil filled radiators for background heat and a TOU tariff like Agile works for me.

As a tenant in a one bed flat, if my landlady decided to ditch the gas I would be out of here in a flash 

My gas heating is on 24/7 at 18, my DD to Octopus is £50 and I am £132 in credit 

FreeBear

Sutton11 said: 1, take out gas supply, install electric hob & electric towel rail to bathroom. Keep immersion.
2, put in gas combi and remove immersion tank, install central heating radiator in lounge & towel rail to bathroom keep electric shower over bath.  Maybe radiator in kitchen but tight for wall space.
3, is there a more efficient way to stay all electric?

If you install a new electric hob, fit an induction one - As controllable as gas without the fire risks, and dead easy to keep clean. Downside is you need to be selective about what pots & pans are purchased (no cheap aluminium or expensive solid copper).

An appropriately sized combi could work, but do your homework on modulation range and minimum outputs. The better boilers will modulate down to around 3kW which may well be too much for a small flat. Cheaper boilers will often only go down to 6kW at best. At that level, it would be constantly be short cycling (bad for efficiency and reliability). A plinth heater in the kitchen would provide plenty of heat without taking up wall space. You can also get dual wet/electric models (as well as plain electric). Installing a new boiler and getting rid of the existing water tank is not going to be cheap. There will also be quite a bit of disruption getting all the plumbing in. You may also need consent from the freeholder to drill a hole through the wall for a flue.

Sutton11

DullGreyGuy said:

What are your plans for the flat?

Certainly around here there is a strong desire for flats with gas rather than all electric which unfortunately are the minority of the properties. 

Electric will be more expensive for them to run so confused by what you are trying to achieve? 

What's the heating solution for the main room in option 1? 

Thanks for the reply,
long term - keep the flat, it’s my pension top up plan! 
if I go all electric the lounge already has new electric radiator - a proper thermostatic controlled electric radiator not a panel heater / fan heater.  

To clarify, my goal is to offer a nice warm flat that is cost effective for the tennant, as a studio it’s a budget option to rent so don’t want them wasting money as another reply says paying £10 a month for the privilege of having gas.

Sutton11

MikeyPGT said:

As a tenant in a one bedroom flat I would love it if my landlord ditched the gas supply!  I pay £10 a month for the pleasure of having gas which is way too expensive to use for heating and not actually that efficient either.  If the flat is well insulated I'd go for option 1 - a quick blast with an electric fan heater or oil filled radiators for background heat and a TOU tariff like Agile works for me.

This is exactly as I would see it as a tenant, im not a cook and would be paying a tenner for an ornamental gas hob! 

DullGreyGuy

Sutton11 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

What are your plans for the flat?

Certainly around here there is a strong desire for flats with gas rather than all electric which unfortunately are the minority of the properties. 

Electric will be more expensive for them to run so confused by what you are trying to achieve? 

What's the heating solution for the main room in option 1? 

Thanks for the reply,
long term - keep the flat, it’s my pension top up plan! 
if I go all electric the lounge already has new electric radiator - a proper thermostatic controlled electric radiator not a panel heater / fan heater.  

To clarify, my goal is to offer a nice warm flat that is cost effective for the tennant, as a studio it’s a budget option to rent so don’t want them wasting money as another reply says paying £10 a month for the privilege of having gas.

Obviously its going to depend on the person, how warm they like their home, how much time they spend in the place etc but assuming its a person living their as their main home and they use the heating when they feel cold then

Electric only: £172/month 
Electric and gas: £89/month

Above based on average consumption of a 1 bed flat (studio wasnt an option) with Octopus fixed price tariffs in London. 

So yeah, you can save them £10/month in standing charge but more or less double their total cost of energy. Gas is a quarter the price of electricity and whilst electricity is more efficient you are talking about a new modern boiler which is 90%+ efficient so the price difference is barely touched

QrizB

Sutton11 said:

To clarify, my goal is to offer a nice warm flat that is cost effective for the tennant

If that's your goal then your choices are:

- gas central heating

- electric storage heater(s)

- heat pump

Direct electric heating (even is it's "a proper thermostatic controlled electric radiator") will be more expensive to run.

Direct electric heating is far cheaper for the landlord to install and doesn't need an annual gas safety check, so I guess it depends on whether your goal is really cost-effectiveness for your tenant or reduced costs for you?

Scot_39

Sutton11 said:

I have a small studio flat I rent out.  Currently it has gas fire (70’s type) in lounge/bedroom and a gas hob & electric oven.  No central heating and water heated by electric immersion. Shower electric. I have installed good quality electric radiator in lounge.  Flat has 3 rooms longe/sleeping, kitchen, bathroom. On 3rd floor and flat above, no damp.  Immersion tank currently in internal cupboard but kitchen has pantry with external wall and close to gas meter.

Tennant is paying gas & electric bills with standing charges.  I want to ensure occupier has a warm nice home but also not wasting money on bills.  Tennant reported they were not cold over winter. My thoughts are…

1, take out gas supply, install electric hob & electric towel rail to bathroom. Keep immersion.
2, put in gas combi and remove immersion tank, install central heating radiator in lounge & towel rail to bathroom keep electric shower over bath.  Maybe radiator in kitchen but tight for wall space.
3, is there a more efficient way to stay all electric? 

Any thoughts or feedback on which option is better are gratefully received.  Thank you!

It's really difficult to say what the best options as it depends too much on individual needs / choices and property.

Do you have any idea how much energy is used by current tenant ?

Or guesstimated in epc calculation ?

With an Ofgem all electric low quartile tdcv - just 2200kWh per annum - arguably probably enough for many in a studio flat - even at 27p single rate thats just £600+standing charges.  

I stay below the median tdcv 3900kWh - but have to run low temps to do so - my next door neighbours use nearer 7000kWh for 2 in same sized mid terrace 2 bed.

Gas appliances like hobs and fires - especially open flue coal effect ones - visually pretty but not always that efficient - can be a lot less efficient than electric - nowhere near 90% plus numbers can assume say for a modern gch boiler.

Why electric panel and gas fire in same space if gas c70s is it still servicible?


The gas standing charge - at over £100 - is a non trivial cost overhead - for low users. 

Hot water tank and the electric shower are likely major share of demand in a studio flat.  Especially one with heated flats above and below to minimise those heat loss points.

Tanks are lossy - a small, full size  modern can lose 1kWh daily.  

For me hw alone easily over 1000kWh - maybe closer to 1500kWh  -  just me in a 2 bed with small 100-120l immersion het tank and 9kW electric shower.

Unless you can get permission for ashp or to drill walls for and planning permission for reverse cycle air con  - you can forget really cheap running cost electric.

So storage heaters the next best bet.

But the balance for low users is different than for many small homeswith higher usere let alone larger homes.

As above even gas SC £10pm is non trivial - even at 20p/kWh diff gas cap 7p vs single rate cap c27p electric rates - pays to move 50kWh per month 600kWh pa. Again 600kWh over a quarter of the lower quartile tdcv.  Even more at decent e7 mix.

And then there will be gas safety certification for you and  servicing if add a combi boiler - so yet another £100 plus built into the rent.  And chances are you'll have to rip it out in 10-20 years.

Edit to add -

So if like me - and a fairly low consumption property

I'd be tempted to go all electric.  Your probably going to have to in next 20 years especially as a landlord.  Scotttish Green dates for landlords were years earlier than other sitting homeowners  - SNP yet to fully revise. English plans / dates ???

E7 or similar (snug if add restricted meter / wiring)

1 or 2 HHR NSH depending on physical arrgts to heat living bed room (hhr will stop it from hesting at night when not needed)  / kitchen / bathroom  - assuming air circulation spreads the heat via open doorways most of the time.  Some landlords here have said just 1 hhr nsh can potentially lift marginal all electric property to band C.

(I heat living room, bath and kitchen  and 2 bedrooms in mid terrace from 1 large nsh lr 2 small nsh in upstairs / downstairs halls) other rooms have heaters - only bathroom fan used in deepest winter as / after shower - 15m max daily maybe).

Replace electric cold fed shower with tank hot fed shower if water pressure suitable.  Heat that say 300-400 kWh at off peak..

For 3) If cheaper but still not as cheap as gas units  long term you need to also invest seriously in electric as you would gas to go combi.

Your 1 solution like the electric panel in living room - pushes to expensive electric heating on single rate or other chosen tariff..

You ideally want as much stored low rate electric heat and hot water.

And don't forget tge secondary costs of keeping gas - direct in SC and indirect in rent for your service and certifications. 

Gas might still attract value now - but depending on how long long haul is - you might be facing upheaval in coming decades.  To decarbonise heating anyway.