New justification for refusing to pay foisted restaurant "service charges" without feeling guilty

DullGreyGuy

NFH said:

DullGreyGuy said:

As to European countries? France has an automatic 15% service charge but its not discretionary and so its taxable but it equally has to go to the employees; most dont list it out separately. In Italy you will often see coperto on your bill which is a service charge, normally though its fixed per head rather than a percentage of the bill and often mandatory rather than discretionary... many places is €2-3 per head. Spain used to do the old bread trick which was effectively a service charge but seems to be dying out now. 

Ireland - has the same discretionary service charge appearing. Culturally we are closer to Ireland than the rest of Europe so no real surprises we have greater alignment on this than the continent. 

In France and Spain, the price you see is always the price you are asked to pay. There is never a percentage added on top of menu prices. You're right about Italy, which not only has the coperto, but sometimes a nonsense percentage in tourist areas. Unlike a percentage, a coperto could not be included within menu prices because it's a fixed amount rather than being based on the items ordered, so its purpose isn't a misleading indication of price. As for Ireland, I've never experienced an additional percentage, although I'm aware that it's unfortunately starting to happen.

France and Spain are different... France has a compulsory service charge of 15% but its normally just included in the price and stated as service included. As a service charge however it has to go to staff even if it's not visibly separated. 

Spain doesnt have any compulsory service charge, in fact one would be illegal, they can have discretionary ones and they do the old bread trick too of an unordered item (bread or olives normally) that turns up and the €2 or whatever goes to the waiter.  Some tourist traps are known to add a compulsory service charge despite it being illegal but thats just the usual milking tourists that happens the world over. 

Grumpy_chap

NFH said:

In any case, many restaurants automatically foist a service charge even when the diner has not opted into it. They are not genuinely optional.

They are optional - I have in the past received a bill with the 15% service charge added and, on the basis of poor service, requested that amount to be removed with success.

NFH

Grumpy_chap said:

NFH said:

In any case, many restaurants automatically foist a service charge even when the diner has not opted into it. They are not genuinely optional.

They are optional - I have in the past received a bill with the 15% service charge added and, on the basis of poor service, requested that amount to be removed with success.

They are not genuinely optional unless the bill payer has opted in. Although a bill payer can theoretically ask for it to be removed, there are various genuine impediments to doing so.