Second Charge on Land registry by Barclays

housebuyer143

Hoenir said:

housebuyer143 said:

A formal complaint will be the way to get it to someone who can help, but I imagine it's not going up be quick.

The paperwork has been sent in. Complaining isn't going to get anybody further up the queue or given preferential treatment. No doubt there's other similar cases in the process of being resolved. 

The OP wants it dealt with quickly so a formal complaint at least gets things moving. They have timescales they need to reply within. 
Just sending it to a mortgage office doesn't mean much, it could be sat on a confused employees desk for weeks.
Nothing lost by putting in the complaint also.

user1977

singhini said:

If Barclays are saying they cant help, could it be worth contacting Land Registry to see if they can help.
https://customerhelp.landregistry.gov.uk/forums/general-info-and-guidance/2492ba3d-5aee-ed11-a81c-00224801e3da 

The LR will just (correctly) advise that it's for Barclays to discharge. Or ultimately it can be done via a court action, but that should only be necessary if a creditor is AWOL/defunct/difficult.

Hoenir

housebuyer143 said:

Hoenir said:

housebuyer143 said:

A formal complaint will be the way to get it to someone who can help, but I imagine it's not going up be quick.

The paperwork has been sent in. Complaining isn't going to get anybody further up the queue or given preferential treatment. No doubt there's other similar cases in the process of being resolved. 

The OP wants it dealt with quickly so a formal complaint at least gets things moving. They have timescales they need to reply within. 
Just sending it to a mortgage office doesn't mean much, it could be sat on a confused employees desk for weeks.
Nothing lost by putting in the complaint also.

Documents are scanned and placed into work flow systems these days.  Creating unneccesary work simply results in less being done. People only work a set number of hours a day.  When everybody complains no one gets any further forward any quicker.  

user1977

Hoenir said:

housebuyer143 said:

Hoenir said:

housebuyer143 said:

A formal complaint will be the way to get it to someone who can help, but I imagine it's not going up be quick.

The paperwork has been sent in. Complaining isn't going to get anybody further up the queue or given preferential treatment. No doubt there's other similar cases in the process of being resolved. 

The OP wants it dealt with quickly so a formal complaint at least gets things moving. They have timescales they need to reply within. 
Just sending it to a mortgage office doesn't mean much, it could be sat on a confused employees desk for weeks.
Nothing lost by putting in the complaint also.

Documents are scanned and placed into work flow systems these days.  Creating unneccesary work simply results in less being done. People only work a set number of hours a day.  When everybody complains no one gets any further forward any quicker.  

The point is that in this case, the request simply gets rejected (from the "normal" frontline workers) because the bank cannot trace an account on their database of live/recent accounts. So a different angle of attack is needed.

Hoenir

user1977 said:

Hoenir said:

housebuyer143 said:

Hoenir said:

housebuyer143 said:

A formal complaint will be the way to get it to someone who can help, but I imagine it's not going up be quick.

The paperwork has been sent in. Complaining isn't going to get anybody further up the queue or given preferential treatment. No doubt there's other similar cases in the process of being resolved. 

The OP wants it dealt with quickly so a formal complaint at least gets things moving. They have timescales they need to reply within. 
Just sending it to a mortgage office doesn't mean much, it could be sat on a confused employees desk for weeks.
Nothing lost by putting in the complaint also.

Documents are scanned and placed into work flow systems these days.  Creating unneccesary work simply results in less being done. People only work a set number of hours a day.  When everybody complains no one gets any further forward any quicker.  

The point is that in this case, the request simply gets rejected (from the "normal" frontline workers) because the bank cannot trace an account on their database of live/recent accounts. So a different angle of attack is needed.

Paperwork has been sent in. This won't be handled by front line customer service agents. Large organisations work in a structured manner.  Unless you can get inside the business and walk from department to department to bounce the query up the queue. There's nothing to achieve. Productivity in this country has been falling for some considerable time. Everyday becomes more apparent why this is the case. 

karlsp

thanks for your feedback everyone.

We have escalated this through various channels due to its time sensitive nature.

To answer one question, the conveyancer was unable to get any help from Barclays, as they refused to help without an account number. Rather unhelpfully there is no account number listed on the charge documentation.

I have also spent hours on the phone to Barclays today and got nowhere, 3 utterly useless customer service reps who I'm surprised were able to get themselves out of bed, and then one very helpful chap,  who tried about a dozen different searches, but couldn't find any details of borrowings against the owners names, against the address, or against the Title deeds.

On the basis Barclays cant find or prove a debt I have escalated this through the different Complaints teams they have , and also to their two senior figures in the UK, who both happen to fall quite closely into my Linked In network. If Barclays cant find, trace, or prove the  debt then as far as I'm concerned they have been negligent in removing the Charge, and that forms the basis of my complaints.

Ill let you know how I get on , but so far common sense doesn't seem to apply to anyone at Barclays, and the Land Registry are not allowed to act on that alone either !

karlsp

And on that note, I've had an email reply within 30 minutes from the CEOs PA , promising that they will look into my issue urgently. Fingers crossed !!

Chukkyking

I had the same issue selling my MIL house when she went into a care home.

In theory the solicitor / conveyancer could help but the only way to resolve this is to submit a CCD form (Application to Cancel a Caution against Dealing - search for Land Registry CCD). This essentially requests the Land Registry to cancel the charge. What they then do is write to the people at the address on the registry entry to ask them to remove the entry. This address is almost certainly out of date.

They then wait a period of time to get a response and if no response comes they then remove the entry anyway.

Unfortunately this does work but takes a few weeks.

I submitted the form on my MIL behalf but I cant remember if I had to submit the LPA (Lasting  power of attorney) that I had or not for them to accept the request from me. The Land Registry help desk can confirm.

If you get a copy of the Land Registry entry it will give you the refence and the details of the charge (you do have to pay for a copy).

silvercar

Chukkyking said:

I had the same issue selling my MIL house when she went into a care home.

In theory the solicitor / conveyancer could help but the only way to resolve this is to submit a CCD form (Application to Cancel a Caution against Dealing - search for Land Registry CCD). This essentially requests the Land Registry to cancel the charge. What they then do is write to the people at the address on the registry entry to ask them to remove the entry. This address is almost certainly out of date.

They then wait a period of time to get a response and if no response comes they then remove the entry anyway.

Unfortunately this does work but takes a few weeks.

I submitted the form on my MIL behalf but I cant remember if I had to submit the LPA (Lasting  power of attorney) that I had or not for them to accept the request from me. The Land Registry help desk can confirm.

If you get a copy of the Land Registry entry it will give you the refence and the details of the charge (you do have to pay for a copy).

@Land_Registry, can you confirm if this is true?

Land_Registry

silvercar said:

Chukkyking said:

I had the same issue selling my MIL house when she went into a care home.

In theory the solicitor / conveyancer could help but the only way to resolve this is to submit a CCD form (Application to Cancel a Caution against Dealing - search for Land Registry CCD). This essentially requests the Land Registry to cancel the charge. What they then do is write to the people at the address on the registry entry to ask them to remove the entry. This address is almost certainly out of date.

They then wait a period of time to get a response and if no response comes they then remove the entry anyway.

Unfortunately this does work but takes a few weeks.

I submitted the form on my MIL behalf but I cant remember if I had to submit the LPA (Lasting  power of attorney) that I had or not for them to accept the request from me. The Land Registry help desk can confirm.

If you get a copy of the Land Registry entry it will give you the refence and the details of the charge (you do have to pay for a copy).

@Land_Registry, can you confirm if this is true?

Partially with regards contacting us to see if we have a reference (account number) for the actual legal charge
I don't follow the use of form CDD though as that's specific to a 'caution' and that's not a registered legal charge. A caution is an old form (no longer available) of protection for a third party interest. You'd expect to see a Notice (Agreed or Unilateral) or Restriction instead nowadays for such an interest as per the LR Act 2002 when 'new' cautions were no longer allowed.
It's quite possible that Chukkyking's MIL had a caution on the title and they dealt with it as explained
But OP on this thread stated that they have a registered legal charge dating back 42 years so the only help we can probably offer here is trying to source the account number to prise Barclays' door open a little further to see if they can trace any records
I believe OP has been in touch direct with us as well and been advised as such to get in touch so we can check our paper archive to see if we have that detail. Not all legal charges submitted contain much more than the date and names etc but we may have something that refers to an account number - we have to look first though before we can say Yes/No and how to get a copy if a Yes answer